Go economy!

[JC]

Originally Posted by MikeK

This is exactly what has been happening for the last few decades.

Americans demand cheap goods from other countries, which are paid for in US dollars. US dollars are valuable because of this vast trade, so other countries invest in dollars by buying up american debt. The trade keeps the value of the dollar high, which keeps the imports coming, etc etc.

When the terms on these loans come due, they are usually paid for with the next round of money coming in. Essentially the US has been surviving for decades on a never ending series of loans. And that is fine, as long as the rest of the world wants US dollars.

But if other countries start trading in euros instead of US dollars (which will happen if it keeps falling) then the US economy is done. The flow of "free" money into the US from investors like Japan and China will stop. Instead of paying these loans using new loans, what will happen when the supply of new money dries up?

This is essentially what happened to Argentina 8 years ago, and it had to start borrowing more money to pay old loans and society basically collapsed.

If OPEC switches to the euro then it will be twice as bad, because oil is the one import that america truly can't do without.

I think the management of this country has been very poor, and not just over the last 8 years either. Instead of reducing debt and dependence on imported oil, america has been increasing debt and using the money to finance military operations to secure that oil flow, a short term solution at best. You can't get voted in if the voters can't afford their retarded sized SUVs and monster trucks!

I know it sounds gloomy, but don't worry! I keep the cost of a one way airfare out of here in my bank account, just in case

I didn't say print more money, I said make more money. I don't think things are as gloom and doom as everyone says. America is a very dynamic country with a much larger and more innovative economy than a country like Argentina. I wouldn't disagree that we are going backwards right now but we will pull out of it. It's likely that we will become a leader in alternative energy and it will provide the next big boom to our economy. Countries like China and India may be growing rapidly but they are still largely social disasters and economically backwards. The global economy depends on the US. I'm not worried about it yet.

[wrxkidid]

Once people actually start using euros instead of dollars is when i will be worried. ass long as the GDP is in the black we are doing just fine.

[JonnydaJibba]

Originally Posted by Bob Danger

Have you ever stopped to think that this is what "they" want you to believe. They create these movies that depict humanity being over run by machines, so that the ignorant masses (you) won't even try. I'm not talking about robots or a number of collective conscious machines, I'm talking about a number of computers operating independently of each other giving us advice that would be up to us to fallow, or not.

That wasn't what I got from your first statement. Come on Bob, you know me better than that. I'm not one of "the masses" and neither are you.

Originally Posted by JC

I didn't say print more money, I said make more money. I don't think things are as gloom and doom as everyone says. America is a very dynamic country with a much larger and more innovative economy than a country like Argentina. I wouldn't disagree that we are going backwards right now but we will pull out of it. It's likely that we will become a leader in alternative energy and it will provide the next big boom to our economy. Countries like China and India may be growing rapidly but they are still largely social disasters and economically backwards. The global economy depends on the US. I'm not worried about it yet.

I agree with you JC, but why hasn't alternative energy caught on yet? It seems like a lot of people believe we don't need it yet and we just need to drill for more oil. I'm sure that would help now but can't we push forward alternative energy at the same time? Maybe it's a slow development process. Does it have anything to do with "big oil keeping alternatives down" or is that just a bunch of hooey?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by wrxkidid

Once people actually start using euros instead of dollars is when i will be worried. ass long as the GDP is in the black we are doing just fine.

How can you have a negative GDP? How do you produce less than zero?

And we've been running a trade deficit since the 70's, if that's what you meant.

[wrxkidid]

I don't think I have the education to keep up in this thred. Damn engineers.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

How can you have a negative GDP? How do you produce less than zero?

And we've been running a trade deficit since the 70's, if that's what you meant.

Year over year GDP change can be negative. Positive year over year is growth, negative is recession.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Year over year GDP change can be negative. Positive year over year is growth, negative is recession.

How can you have a negative GDP? How do you produce less than zero?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

How can you have a negative GDP? How do you produce less than zero?

They are referring to year to year or Quarter to Quarter change. If GDP was $100 last period and $99 this period, that is a negative 1% (period1-period2)/period1 change in GDP. 2 or more consecutive quarters of negative Q to Q change = recession. (I think it is Q to Q not Y to Y...)

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

They are referring to year to year or Quarter to Quarter change. If GDP was $100 last period and $99 this period, that is a negative 1% (period1-period2)/period1 change in GDP. 2 or more consecutive quarters of negative Q to Q change = recession. (I think it is Q to Q not Y to Y...)

How can you have a negative GDP? How do you produce less than zero?

[JonnydaJibba]

Wouldn't that make the GDP in Deans example 99% from last quarter? It's a decrease in the GDP but the GDP itself is not negative, correct?

Now you won't have do CTRL C 4 more times Scott, unless I too am an idiot.

[Nick Koan]

That's how I'm reading it Jon.

The GDP delta between periods can be negative. By definition, the GDP itself cannot be negative because that makes no sense.

[Kevin M]

Scott is pointing out that you can have positive or negative growth but GDP itself cannot be less than zero.

Edit: So is Nick.

[ScottyS]

Originally Posted by sperry

How can you have a negative GDP? How do you produce less than zero?

That happens in UNR administrative offices on a daily basis.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ScottyS

That happens in UNR administrative offices on a daily basis.

Apparently it happens at IGT too. Stock was down 8.6% today.

[MikeK]

If you inject hydrogen into your economy's intake, GDP goes up 82%

[wrxkidid]

Originally Posted by MikeK

If you inject hydrogen into your economy's intake, GDP goes up 82%

And solves the whole oil issue since hydrogen is a green fuel. Why havent we been doing this over the past couple of years?!?!?!?!


the economy sucks yes, but look at it this way atleast we are not in a full out depression/recession.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by wrxkidid

And solves the whole oil issue since hydrogen is a green fuel. Why havent we been doing this over the past couple of years?!?!?!?!


the economy sucks yes, but look at it this way atleast we are not in a full out depression/recession.

Hydrogen is only "green" if the electricity used to generate it doesn't come from fossil fuel.

[Double Phister]

Nuclear power now!

[Dean]

Solar, Wind & Nukes and a Tesla Roadster in every garage!!! F the Saudis.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

a Tesla Roadster in every garage!!!

If you're just giving them away I'll take two, plzkthx.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

If you're just giving them away I'll take two, plzkthx.

They were supposed to announce another more mainstream car this week, but for some reason the announcement was delayed, or I can't find anything on it on their site.

Wait, found something... Linky $65K 5 passenger sedan... No Pictures

[Libila]

Originally Posted by JonnydaJibba

I agree with you JC, but why hasn't alternative energy caught on yet? It seems like a lot of people believe we don't need it yet and we just need to drill for more oil. I'm sure that would help now but can't we push forward alternative energy at the same time? Maybe it's a slow development process. Does it have anything to do with "big oil keeping alternatives down" or is that just a bunch of hooey?

The "push" takes time but each alternative energy source has a downfall, and people want a solution, not a compromise.

Supposedly America's corn ethanol is hurting our food market and it takes as much energy to produce as we'd save.

Batteries for electric cars aren't ready and the production is quite dirty.

If only we had the foresight like Brazil...

[cody]

Originally Posted by Libila

The "push" takes time but each alternative energy source has a downfall, and people want a solution, not a compromise.

Supposedly America's corn ethanol is hurting our food market and it takes as much energy to produce as we'd save.

Batteries for electric cars aren't ready and the production is quite dirty.

If only we had the foresight like Brazil...

The statistic I heard recently (on a Naked Science episode) is that it takes the equivilent of one gallon of corn ethanol (in fuel) to produce 2 gallons.

Edit: Whereas in another country (was it Brazil?) it takes 1 gallon of sugar cane ethanol (in fuel) to make 8 gallons of sugar cane ethanol...sugar cane is a much more efficient ethanol crop.

[sperry]

Too bad the only state in the Union that can grow sugar cane is Hawaii.

Maybe we should modernize our policy towards Cuba and turn them into a #1 trading partner for fuel cane?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

They grow cane down south in Louisiana & Florida too, more than in Hawaii actually. And FYI Brazil was able to shift to large scale ethanol consumption in the 1970's relatively quickly because their government was a military dictatorship at the time, which rolled out mandates as well as large subsidies for production.