Let's talk about brakes! - Page 4 - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-12, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

As long as not having ABS on a street driven car in Reno doesn't bother you. Otherwise I'd have one in my car too.

The ABS works just fine on my car, and I've got one on the rear line.

Kevin M · 2004-02-12, 03:00 PM

"The rear line"? There's only one on your car?

sperry · 2004-02-12, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

"The rear line"? There's only one on your car?

hehe... Mustang = solid rear axle = one line to the rear...

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-12, 03:43 PM

Yup.. one hard line to the rear, flex line to the axle, T-block that splits it to each rear caliper.

Dean · 2004-02-12, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Wanna help me do my next brake job? I figure I'm competant enough to do it myself, but I've always wanted someone to walk me through it the 1st time just to make sure I don't miss something. Brakes are too important to "wing it", IMO. Plus, and tips on firiming up the pedal would be appreciated!

Sure, brakes are easy I've done all my upgrades etc... Who did your rotors, and lines?

sperry · 2004-02-12, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Wanna help me do my next brake job? I figure I'm competant enough to do it myself, but I've always wanted someone to walk me through it the 1st time just to make sure I don't miss something. Brakes are too important to "wing it", IMO. Plus, and tips on firiming up the pedal would be appreciated!

Sure, brakes are easy I've done all my upgrades etc... Who did your rotors, and lines?

Rotors got put on w/ the last pad change, and I did the lines myself.... which I screwed up... I stripped the hell out of one of the nuts on the RF. I had to put it back on with pliers, since the nut no longer has sides.

Luckily it's the end attached to the hard line, so if I need to remove the calipers, I can.... otherwise taking that line off is gonna require cutting and re-flangeing of the line.

Dean · 2004-02-12, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Rotors got put on w/ the last pad change, and I did the lines myself.... which I screwed up... I stripped the hell out of one of the nuts on the RF. I had to put it back on with pliers, since the nut no longer has sides.

Luckily it's the end attached to the hard line, so if I need to remove the calipers, I can.... otherwise taking that line off is gonna require cutting and re-flangeing of the line.

OK, so you know how to do pads and rotors whech means you have had the calipers and brackets off... As long as the dust shields are not crispy, that and bleeding is all there is until they are crispy, or they are leaking.

You can pop off the dust seals to make sure the seals aren't leaking.

You did the lines without a set of brake line wrenches didn't you. A classic mistake many have made once. Now go to Harbor Freight and pick up a set of them for both english and metric so you never do it again.

ZER026D · 2004-02-12, 06:48 PM

I never use the wrong tool if I dont have it I dont do the job or go get the tool I need. Its not worth messing stuff up and having to fix somthing you messed up.

sperry · 2004-02-13, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Rotors got put on w/ the last pad change, and I did the lines myself.... which I screwed up... I stripped the hell out of one of the nuts on the RF. I had to put it back on with pliers, since the nut no longer has sides.

Luckily it's the end attached to the hard line, so if I need to remove the calipers, I can.... otherwise taking that line off is gonna require cutting and re-flangeing of the line.

OK, so you know how to do pads and rotors whech means you have had the calipers and brackets off... As long as the dust shields are not crispy, that and bleeding is all there is until they are crispy, or they are leaking.

You can pop off the dust seals to make sure the seals aren't leaking.

You did the lines without a set of brake line wrenches didn't you. A classic mistake many have made once. Now go to Harbor Freight and pick up a set of them for both english and metric so you never do it again.

Wow Dean, you're reading comprehension is killing me! Read slower!

I never said I've done rotors and pads. I said I had the rotors done the last time I had the pads done. Then I said I did the lines myself.

The only time I had the calipers off, was when I pulled the rears off during my coilover install.

As far as a "brake line wrench", what's the difference? 3 of the 4 came off no sweat with the properly sized box wrench. But the RF was fused on way too tightly! It rounded when I was trying to break it open, so I had to resort to pliers to get grip on it.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-13, 08:58 AM

Hard line flare nuts can round off even when using the proper flare nut wrench... I know from experience. I had two of those little bastards round off when I was changing the old cracked flex lines on my Jeep, and had to cut the hard line tubing, get new flare nuts, and re-flare the tubing. Not that hard, really, just a big PITA that will result in lots of cussing.

dknv · 2004-02-13, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Not that hard, really, just a big PITA that will result in lots of cussing.

and downtime for the car.

Dean · 2004-02-13, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "sperry

I never said I've done rotors and pads. I said I had the rotors done the last time I had the pads done. Then I said I did the lines myself.

The only time I had the calipers off, was when I pulled the rears off during my coilover install.

As far as a "brake line wrench", what's the difference? 3 of the 4 came off no sweat with the properly sized box wrench. But the RF was fused on way too tightly! It rounded when I was trying to break it open, so I had to resort to pliers to get grip on it.

OK, we will do brakes...

Open end wrenches were invented as a conspiracy between nut and bolt manufacturers and first aid supply manufacturers. They should never be used on actual nuts and bolts. Only box end, sockets, and brake line wrenches should ever be used. Oh, and vice grips

Brake line wrenches are just 6 point box ends with one side missing. Brake lines are supposed to be tight. the other three were probably not tight enough. only the one you couldn't do with a open end was tight enough to start with.

You should be able to get a set of english and metric line wrenches for under $10 a set, and they will be a great addition to your tool box.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-13, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Brake lines are supposed to be tight. the other three were probably not tight enough. only the one you couldn't do with a open end was tight enough to start with.

See above.

Dean · 2004-02-13, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Brake lines are supposed to be tight. the other three were probably not tight enough. only the one you couldn't do with a open end was tight enough to start with.

See above.

I agree on old stuff, but a 2-3 year old car should not have that issue, and open ends will definitely round the soft flare nuts long before a line wrench will. On the old stuff, sometimes a pair of good vice grips is the only way to go short of cutting and reflaring as you suggested. Having the right tools in the first place minimizes the likelyhood of mangleing anything.

MattR · 2004-02-15, 09:44 PM

Here's some Stop Techs for sale??

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=503513

Dean · 2004-02-16, 01:34 AM

I appreciate the Stoptech article Gary pointed us to, but unless I am mistaken, Stoptech only makes a front upgrade for WRXs. This would appear to me to at least be a partial contridiction to their article. Assuming the factory setup is fairly balanced, if not slightly front biased, just throwing significantly bigger fronts at it like their product would cause exactly the issues they reffer to.

It appears only the Perrin and Wilwoods have a front/rear upgrade. To what level these are matched, I do not know. Heck, even with the CDM/JDM WRX 4 pots it would be interesting to see if the part number for the stock bias control is the same as the U.S.

This balance is part of the reason my Stealth does not have bigger rotors up front, only thicker, and better cooled than stock. I won't get into the piston and pad area changes, but based on the research I did at the time, combined with more aggresive pads in the stock rears, I ended up with a fairly well balanced and much more consistant system.

Kevin M · 2004-02-16, 01:43 AM

The StopTechs use smaller piston sizes in order to keep front braking torque about the same as stock, therefore keeping stock brake bias in place. Essentialy, you should never see a reduction in stopping distance with them, just tons and tons of fade resistance.

sperry · 2004-02-16, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The StopTechs use smaller piston sizes in order to keep front braking torque about the same as stock, therefore keeping stock brake bias in place. Essentialy, you should never see a reduction in stopping distance with them, just tons and tons of fade resistance.

Actually both the StopTechs and FHI 4-pots *reduce* the clamping force compared to stock, moving the brake bias rearward, which *does* increase overall braking ability. Plus (esp. in the case of the StopTechs) the increase in fade resistance.

Kevin M · 2004-02-16, 02:38 AM

Brake torque is about the same though thanks to larger rotor size.

sperry · 2004-02-16, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Brake torque is about the same though thanks to larger rotor size.

I read somewhere that the overall torque is lower than stock too. Stoptech wanted to move some of the bias rearward, and their BBK is specifically designed to work with the stock rears.

Kevin M · 2004-02-16, 02:49 AM

Things I hear keep leading me to this conclusion... which makes me not want them.

I have no problem with simple mods (like the H6 rears) that enable the rears to generate more brake torque, thereby allowing me to also create more front torque while maintaining a balanced system with greater stopping power. Too bad the front/rear Wilwood systems for the WRX suck. I do know I will not be upgrading my brakes further until I find something that will increase braking power, not just fade resistance.

sperry · 2004-02-16, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Things I hear keep leading me to this conclusion... which makes me not want them.

I have no problem with simple mods (like the H6 rears) that enable the rears to generate more brake torque, thereby allowing me to also create more front torque while maintaining a balanced system with greater stopping power. Too bad the front/rear Wilwood systems for the WRX suck. I do know I will not be upgrading my brakes further until I find something that will increase braking power, not just fade resistance.

Well, if you can trigger the ABS (i.e. brake at the limits of your tires), have good pedal feel, and low fade... what else is there? Having brakes that can grab harder won't make a difference if you're already at the limits of tire adhesion.

Kevin M · 2004-02-16, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Well, if you can trigger the ABS (i.e. brake at the limits of your tires), have good pedal feel, and low fade... what else is there? Having brakes that can grab harder won't make a difference if you're already at the limits of tire adhesion.

I have yet to lock up my brakes at the track... and I'm still considering running r-compounds.

sperry · 2004-02-16, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Well, if you can trigger the ABS (i.e. brake at the limits of your tires), have good pedal feel, and low fade... what else is there? Having brakes that can grab harder won't make a difference if you're already at the limits of tire adhesion.

I have yet to lock up my brakes at the track... and I'm still considering running r-compounds.

Push harder.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-16, 10:44 AM

If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. -Mario Andretti.

2004-02-12, 03:00 PM	#77
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	"The rear line"? There's only one on your car? __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-12, 03:43 PM	#79
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Yup.. one hard line to the rear, flex line to the axle, T-block that splits it to each rear caliper. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-02-12, 06:48 PM	#83
ZER026D EJ251 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 616 Car: 01 is300 / 87 rx4 Class: ? drive fast take chances	I never use the wrong tool if I dont have it I dont do the job or go get the tool I need. Its not worth messing stuff up and having to fix somthing you messed up. __________________ Subaru using the slightly different Exkimo spelling "Soebahrue" which is pronounced EXACTLY the same, it means "Man who beds with seals" I saw Chimok down on the ice floe doign that thing with the seals again. He's a total Soebahrue. www.level4racing.com

2004-02-13, 08:58 AM	#85
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Hard line flare nuts can round off even when using the proper flare nut wrench... I know from experience. I had two of those little bastards round off when I was changing the old cracked flex lines on my Jeep, and had to cut the hard line tubing, get new flare nuts, and re-flare the tubing. Not that hard, really, just a big PITA that will result in lots of cussing. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-02-15, 09:44 PM	#90
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	Here's some Stop Techs for sale?? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=503513 __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2004-02-16, 01:34 AM	#91
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	I appreciate the Stoptech article Gary pointed us to, but unless I am mistaken, Stoptech only makes a front upgrade for WRXs. This would appear to me to at least be a partial contridiction to their article. Assuming the factory setup is fairly balanced, if not slightly front biased, just throwing significantly bigger fronts at it like their product would cause exactly the issues they reffer to. It appears only the Perrin and Wilwoods have a front/rear upgrade. To what level these are matched, I do not know. Heck, even with the CDM/JDM WRX 4 pots it would be interesting to see if the part number for the stock bias control is the same as the U.S. This balance is part of the reason my Stealth does not have bigger rotors up front, only thicker, and better cooled than stock. I won't get into the piston and pad area changes, but based on the research I did at the time, combined with more aggresive pads in the stock rears, I ended up with a fairly well balanced and much more consistant system. __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

2004-02-16, 01:43 AM	#92
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	The StopTechs use smaller piston sizes in order to keep front braking torque about the same as stock, therefore keeping stock brake bias in place. Essentialy, you should never see a reduction in stopping distance with them, just tons and tons of fade resistance. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-16, 02:38 AM	#94
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Brake torque is about the same though thanks to larger rotor size. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-16, 02:49 AM	#96
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Things I hear keep leading me to this conclusion... which makes me not want them. I have no problem with simple mods (like the H6 rears) that enable the rears to generate more brake torque, thereby allowing me to also create more front torque while maintaining a balanced system with greater stopping power. Too bad the front/rear Wilwood systems for the WRX suck. I do know I will not be upgrading my brakes further until I find something that will increase braking power, not just fade resistance. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-16, 10:44 AM	#100
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. -Mario Andretti. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

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