Trackmaster's event at RFR, May 28/29

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

For a student who is still learning, this is good advice. I don't think it applies very well to actual racing though. I am frequently a passenger in our racecar, and I can feel perfectly well when our driver applies the brakes. He gets on it very aggressively and rides it all the way down into the corner right on the threshold. He is also very quick and outbrakes almost everyone else on the track. Smooth is fast - up to a point. After that point, when the driver is skilled enough, controlled aggression is the only thing that will wring the last few tenths out of the car.

I also disagree with the last paragraph - because the brakes on our racecar work just fine! We have no issues because it has huge rotors & calipers, high temp race pads & good cooling. These are sprint races I'm talking about too, driven at 110% - not an enduro setting where the driver is taking it easy at 90% to save the equipment.

From a racing perspective, I think you are right on Austin.

My comments were more foccused on the HPDE type events. I guess my point is that go fast and then stand on the brakes is not the best method to get around the track if you can't reliably put the car where you want.

Start at a reasonable speed, get your eyes in the right places, and put the car in the right places, and then add the speed which will mess everything up. Repeat. I'm talkinng about building skills for enjoyable high performance driving, not racing. Being safe, smooth and quick out of the corners are the skills most often needing work at the HPDE level and those aren't going to improve if they can't put the car in the right place at the right time at entry, and through the corner.

Again, for an HPDE type event, unless you are willing to go through a set of pads a day, race pad swaps, bleeds, etc. they are going to need to manage the brakes they brung. Ducting and such will help, but given 4 or more 30 minute sessions a day, most any streetable configuration can be overworked.

Sprints, enduros, and real racing in all its forms are a little different than what most on this board are talking about, though many of the same things apply.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MattR

Dean, once all the video is up, you can see the line in-car...

the only thing I see different from my line, is that I let the car wash all the way to track's edge between 6-7, driver's right...I found you can gain a lot of speed through the uphill around 7 if you get out of 6 "freely', under hard throttle.

Me recolection though is that that forces a lift, or brake at entry to 7 wheras a tighter line allows a little or no lift.

[sperry]

Dean, my line through 5-6-7 is as Matt described. I follow the double apex line in 5-6 that you have drawn, but I make sure my exit in 6 washes out to the right edge, which give me a short straight braking zone before a late apex around 7.

Also the video where I demonstrate how *not* to drive turn 12 is up in the gallery.

[MikeK]

Dean, I was pushing out to the edge after turn 6 as well, but it is interesting that you think the faster line is to stay tight and on the gas through 7. I will have to try that at the audi club event and see how it feels.

The other difference is that after washing out to the side of the track after turn 15, you have to get left again to avoid the pit wall. Then after the pit wall, you move back to the outside to make the entry into turn 1, so the front straight isn't really a straight line.

Lastly, between 11 and 12 the left side of the track is very bumpy, the smooth line is to stay further to the right.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

Sprints, enduros, and real racing in all its forms are a little different than what most on this board are talking about, though many of the same things apply.

Understood; I only said anything because you seemed to be referencing actual racing at one point there in your comments.

[doubleurx]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Dean, I was pushing out to the edge after turn 6 as well, but it is interesting that you think the faster line is to stay tight and on the gas through 7. I will have to try that at the audi club event and see how it feels.

The other difference is that after washing out to the side of the track after turn 15, you have to get left again to avoid the pit wall. Then after the pit wall, you move back to the outside to make the entry into turn 1, so the front straight isn't really a straight line.

Lastly, between 11 and 12 the left side of the track is very bumpy, the smooth line is to stay further to the right.

I agree. To avoid those bumbs into 12, I found it was pretty much center/slightly right was still pretty smooth. The tricky part was navigating the slight turn before the 90 degree at 12. 12 actually has a strange entry and after that straight at 120, it is a pretty fast turn. What sucked on 12 was people would pull right or stay center when you would pass, putting you in the middle of the crappiest part of the track at full throttle. And some mother#$&*^#@ would not lift.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Understood; I only said anything because you seemed to be referencing actual racing at one point there in your comments.

I appologize if I did. I have no first hand experience with real racing, anything along those lines coming form me is strictly hearsay at best, and likely full blown BS!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Dean, I was pushing out to the edge after turn 6 as well, but it is interesting that you think the faster line is to stay tight and on the gas through 7. I will have to try that at the audi club event and see how it feels.

The other difference is that after washing out to the side of the track after turn 15, you have to get left again to avoid the pit wall. Then after the pit wall, you move back to the outside to make the entry into turn 1, so the front straight isn't really a straight line.

Lastly, between 11 and 12 the left side of the track is very bumpy, the smooth line is to stay further to the right.

The track width on the front straight on that picture is wrong, and I haven't had the energy to change it. I'll move the 11-12 line, and I gave a little on the exit of 6.

The only thing that matters in 6-7 is exit speed from 7. if you can drift out at the exit from 6 but still be flush left, not at an angle at the turn in for 7, more power to you. As I recall, I was wanting to put my foot down at turn in while others were still getting off the brakes at the entry of 7. I think the most I had to do with open track was a slight lift before turn in.

[MattR]

Here are some pictures

[MattR]

eyutej

[doubleurx]

Originally Posted by MattR

eyutej

Oh look, speak of the devils!

[Dean]

I forgot to ask... How many sessions did you guys get, and how long were they?

[Pat R.]

5x25 minutes / day

[MattR]

Hosting

[MikeK]

This thread can be unstickyified now

[doubleurx]

Hey Matt and Eric, how 'bout posting some of that awesome video.