Gary Sheehan Teams with ESX to run Speed GT!

[cody]

Cool Race.

[tysonK]

I saw the last 12 laps. no STi shots!

[Dean]

Best STI shot was the starting of the race...

[sperry]

I gotta say, I'm very impressed that *anyone* is attempting to run an STI in that series. Right now it's sort of a "knife to a gunfight" situation... it's going to take a ton of work to make the necessary power out of a 2.5L 4-banger to match a racebred Viper or Vette. But it looks like the rest of the car is there: handling, reliability, braking, etc.

From what I've gathered the car is running a GT35R turbo on a built motor.... something that a ton of people are running on the street. Which means two things: a) they've got their own development program funded by idiots like us that spend a ton of money on our own cars trying stuff out , and b) since they're basically running a "streetable" motor right now, changes are there are some gains yet to be made at the expense of reliability and streetability.

Unfortunately, I don't know the WC-GT rules, so I'm not sure what their options are for power adders. Perhaps WI might help, but they're already running the spec 104 octane fuel, so I'm not sure how much there is to gain there. A bigger turbo and more boost is always an option, but then you have to think about anti-lag to combat the slow spool... which may or may not be legal in the series. Hopefully the smart people working on the car will be able to come up with something!

Bottom line is: Gary did a great job getting an STI into World Challenge, and finished the race placing higher than he qualified. You can't ask for anything more than that considering the stage of development of the car. Congrats Gary!

[JC]

Good first showing Gary, congrats! Sorry to hear about the brake problems you were having. Have you gotten those sorted out? Did I read somewhere that you were running fans in your brake ducts or am imagining things?

Looks like WC-GT is coming to Road Atlanta in Oct, I'll have to come out and watch.

[JC]

Gary's recap from NASIOC...

OK, well, this is long overdue! I don't even know where to start!

Man, what a ride Long Beach was! Seriously, it felt like the four days I was down there stretched out a couple of weeks. I'm still recovering and I didn't even have to work on the car.

Everything is still pretty much a blur. I'll just put up some random cool memories as they come to me.

World Challenge GT and the Long Beach GP really are big time! On Thursday, John Horton from West Coast Vipers brought us a few scooters to get around the paddock with. Marshall and I took them out on track to do a few recon laps so that Marshall and I could discuss some of the more critical point on the track. So there I am, out surveiling the track, right alongside Christiano Dematta, Adrian Fernandez, Christian Fittipadi, etc., all doing the same thing. Pretty sweet!

After the first lap, Marshall went back to the paddock and I just circulated for several laps, just getting the feel of the track. At one point I noticed a whole gaggle of people standing around the fountain turn after having just piling out of several minivans. I slowed down as I approached them, looking for a way through. As I go through, a little guy in the front gives me a nod and a quick wave. What the hell is Frankie Muniz waving at me for?! He sure as hell doesn't know who I am. I must've looked like a race car driver or something! I make my way through the rest of the Pro Celebrity drivers and move on. Very strange feeling!

Marshall introduced me to Andy Pilgrim, who proceded to share his wealth of WCGT experience with me over the next 15 minutes. What a cool guy! He definitely accelerated my learning curve and provided several points that definitely helped me prepare for my first WCGT race. And he made himself available for me to ask questions throughout the weekend, which I took him up on. What an honor to have the series champion help out the most recent rookie and make him feel welcome. Thanks Andy!

The Cadillac team was gracious enough to have us work out of their trailer with them over the weekend. It was a little odd to be changing into my racing suit mixed in with all these Caddy guys that I didn't know. But they were all really cool, friendly and easy to talk to. David Spitzer is a VERY nice guy and was always willing to listen to what I had to say and offer advice based on his experience. The most awkward moment of the weekend was opening the sliding door into the trailer to meet Ron Fellows in his underwear as he was suiting up for practice. "Hey, sorry about that Ron! Ha, I'm the new guy, can you tell? Just let me know the next time you want to show the world your underwear and I'll be the guy to open the door!" sheesh. Ron was a really nice guy as well.

The waiting just about killed me. These guys head out to grid really early. We get out there and wait. I must've been strapped in for 45 minutes prior to the first practice at 5:30pm on Friday. At least Saturday practice and Sunday qualifying was nice and early in the morning and the wait didn't seem long at all. But race day, holy crap. I'm all keyed up to get out in my first WCGT race and the cars are in pre-grid an hour beforehand. AHHHHH!!!!! But it was a great time to just hang out with the crew and chat. It was one of the few times they weren't busting their asses getting the car ready for a session. Their work was done and they could finally relax a bit. Thanks for all the hard work!

I don't know who it was, but while I was sitting on the starting grid on Shoreline Drive, I distinctly heard someone shout, "Kick some ass, Gary!" or something like that. I don't remember exactly what was yelled out, but I do remember clearly hearing my name and cracking a huge smile. I gave a thumbs up out the window and I hope whoever said it saw it. Thank you, to whoever it was, because I still had that smile plastered on my face as I dumped the clutch when the red lights went out!

Surreal moment. On the parade lap just prior to the start I was going through the Fountain corner and Andy Pilgrim drove right past me on my right, going the opposite direction! WTF?! As I'm radioing in to Marshall to find out what happens to Andy for the start, he goes zipping past me on the left on one of the straights. Craziness.

Speaking of which, I had decided to go to the outside for the race start. Just seemed like the best place to go with the room that we had. Shoreline seems really tight there, so any kind of pass off the line was going to be snug. When the lights went out the STi just WENT! I quickly steered left to get around the Vette in front of me. I was already about to overlap him before he started rolling, but when he did, he came right over on me. I thought I was done. I slammed on the brakes and steered towards the wall as close as I could without hitting it. I still remember waiting for the crunch that never came. When I we were clear of each other, I was nearly stopped and dead last. Oh well.

Turn 1 wasn't nearly the mess I expected it to be. Everyone checked up pretty early, minded their manners and we all got through clean. It was like a really aggressive traffic jam! I got in front of that yellow vette in all the traffic and took a few defensive lines through the next corners to keep him there. All of a sudden, Andy goes past me on the right going in to turn 6. He had to start from pit lane and easily caught up to the pack with how slow we were going through the corners. Then, on the straight, gone!

Our car was really underpowered and overweight for this event, so I settled down to try to turn in some good clean fast laps (as fast as the car would go anyway). I have to say that flying down Shoreline at 140mph with the spectators on the left and pits on the right is a thrilling experience! It became even MORE thrilling when I went for the brakes at my reference point and the pedal went right to the floor. As I released the pedal, it S-L-O-W-L-Y came back up and I pushed it to the floor again. As I waited for the pedal to come up a third time I began the thought process of which tire barrier would be the best one to hit at over 100mph. No panic, just here's the current situation, figure out the best way to deal with it. When I got pedal pressure on the fifth stroke I felt like Marty McFly when he finally got the time machine DeLorean to start after banging his head on the steering wheel in "Back to the Future." I got the car stopped deep in the runoff and radioed in to Marshall that I had no brakes.

When I got the car back on track the brakes were so bad I wasn't sure how I was going to get it back to the pits. It took two full strokes to get any braking for the fountain turn, and another two for the following corner. As I was limping around towards 9, 10 and 11, I had figured out that while I didn't immediately have brakes when I wanted them, when I did finally get them, pedal feel was right and friction felt absolutely normal. So I decided to stay out a lap and experiment.

At the end of the next lap I knew I could keep the car out on track. By the end of the following lap I was getting a feel of how many pedal strokes were required for each corner. Six for turn 1 at 140mph, one for the fountain, one for turn 3, one for turn 4, three for turn 5, etc. By the end of that lap I felt confident enough in the situation to start picking up the pace. Within a couple more laps I was at least back to my qualifying laptime and trying to hustle the car through the apex and corner exit.

It wasn't an exact science. Sometimes I needed an extra pedal stroke into turn one. Sometimes only one braking channel would grab and the car would pull violently to the right or left. There was some excitement when I would let someone go by and tuck in behind them, then start my early braking pumping. One time I was too close to a Porsche and I remember as I was staring at his taillights and pumping the pedal thinking to myself "please don't brake yet, please don't brake yet!" Then, just after I got my brakes back, his brakelights lit up! Whew! The last thing I wanted to do was take out a competitor in my first race!

For the rest of the distance I just raced against the new challenge I had. I learned a lot and came out of it without a scratch on the car and a whole racefull of experience. The entire crew congratulated me and just made me feel great about the whole thing.

It wasn't exactly how we wanted the weekend to go, but we all did a fantastic job as a team and we impressed a lot of important people, including the SCCA and the other drivers.

OK, I'm done for now. Feel free to ask me anything and you'll jog my memory of other stuff worth talking about. Like the time two women came up together and asked me to sign body parts...

Marshall did an amazing job pulling this effort together in such a short amount of time and all of the guys that contributed went well above and beyond the call of duty. Many, many thanks to all involved!!!

Gary
#99 Subaru STi
World Challenge GT

[sperry]

I just watched the end of the race... Ron Fellows is the fucking man. Text book driving: used the handling of his car to setup and beat a faster, more powerful car. Awesome finish.

JC, IIRC the fans on the brake ducts were on the USTCC car, but I could be mistaken.

[MattR]

Ron Fellows is the man, Who passes on the outside on a street circuit? For a part time Cadillac driver, he sure knows that car well.

Anyway, it was great to see Gary in the event, and finishing their first race is a huge accomplishment. Good work.

[GST Mike]

Gary is the man, with the issues after the 3rd lap with the master cylinder to turn the lap times he did is nothing short of amazing.

I am nothing short of proud to have been able part of the team.

Mike

[sperry]

Originally Posted by GST Mike

Gary is the man, with the issues after the 3rd lap with the master cylinder to turn the lap times he did is nothing short of amazing.

I am nothing short of proud to have been able part of the team.

Mike

What actually happened to the master cylinder anyway? It held up for the 15 hrs at T-Hill, then the WCGT practices and qualifying... what made it go on L3 of the race? You guys going to switch to a beefier one... or is there no such animal?

[GST Mike]

What makes you think it held up during practice and qualifying? We had issues with the braking from the get go and spent the best part of the weekend working on resolving them it was not until the actual race (or after it) that we came to the master cylinder after fixing the ducting and such during the earlier parts of the weekend.

I would imagine they plan to run something better on the next outing.

Mike

[sperry]

Originally Posted by GST Mike

What makes you think it held up during practice and qualifying? We had issues with the braking from the get go and spent the best part of the weekend working on resolving them it was not until the actual race (or after it) that we came to the master cylinder after fixing the ducting and such during the earlier parts of the weekend.

I would imagine they plan to run something better on the next outing.

Mike

Ahh... I was assuming the problem was a "surprise! no brakes" after hours of flawless track time.

Are you guys running StopTechs front and rear? Will you have an issue w/ brake bias if you switch master cylinders, or are you already running a proportioning valve?

I need a new master cylinder myself (I'm still running the WRX one with STI brakes, so I've got a ton of pedal throw). I'm insterested to hear what you guys come up with for a solution.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

I'm insterested to hear what you guys come up with for a solution.

(If they're not already..)

[dustinr]

Watched that race, the STi just seems like a midget among giants. The lap time difference during the race was pretty huge but I'm sure not having any brakes was the majority of the reason.

Does anyone know if the ESX STi is still running the AWD system or is that car now a RWD? What motor are the Porsche's running? NA or turbo? It seems that if the Porsche's can be somewhat competitive then the STi should stand a chance too.

What rules does the Speed GT series have about homologation? Do the cars have to come from a car lot and be built or can they be factory prepped race cars?

It seems you could buy one of the almost turn-key Prodrive Impreza WRC S10 cars and set it up for street and you'd have a pretty competitve package... semi-auto trans and all the bells and whistles.
http://www.prodrive.com/default2.asp?M=368

[sperry]

I doubt a Prodrive WRC car would be legal in WCGT. The sequential gearbox certainly won't be, as the cars are required to run factory specified gear ratios.

Gary's WC car uses the factory STI AWD 6-speed, with factory diffs, etc. It's the same stuff that comes on the car from Subaru. The motor's a built 2.5L with a GT35R turbo on race gas... so they're probably making 400 to 450 hp at the crank.

The Porsches use the 911 GT3's motor IIRC, which is a 3.6L flat-6 making 380 hp in stock trim... figure the race motors are in the 450-500hp range, plus the Porsches are generally the lightest cars out there. And even then, there are a ton of Porsches in the field and yet the races tend to be all Vette, Viper, and CTS-Vs up front... which makes sense, since those cars all make 400 to 500 hp *stock*... figure they're pushing 550 to 600hp in race trim (though the cars are quite heavy).

Gary's car is simply just under-developed at this point. Similar to the Skyline GT-R that's in the series, no one's tried these AWD cars in this series, so the learning curve is very steep. I think Gary mentioned his STI seems capable of keeping up w/ the others in the corners and under braking... the car is just over-weight and underpowered. If they can drop some weight, they should be able to our-turn and out-brake the competition... and then all they need is enough power to keep up on the straights.

I don't think the STI will ever make the power needed to chase down the V8's in the series, but if they can be close, then they should be able to out-handle the big cars, then get the jump on them out of the corners due to the higher cornering speeds plus the AWD traction. Then it's just making the car as "wide" as possible and running a defensive line. When you can run the inside line, and still turn as fast as your opponents, you become very hard to pass. You just have to hope there are no really long straights where the big horsepower cars can eat you alive.

[kidatari]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

(If they're not already..)

:drool: I want to put a Tilton pedal box in my RS. The AP Racing one is even bettar, but it's like $4k

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

Gary's WC car uses the factory STI AWD 6-speed, with factory diffs, etc. It's the same stuff that comes on the car from Subaru. The motor's a built 2.5L with a GT35R turbo on race gas... so they're probably making 400 to 450 hp at the crank.

Really? I would think a GT35R on race gas should be easily over 550hp at the crank? They are making 500-600 WHP on street cars.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JC

Really? I would think a GT35R on race gas should be easily over 550hp at the crank? They are making 500-600 WHP on street cars.

600 whp? I don't think anyone is making 600 whp on a "streetable" STI motor. Hell, is anyone even making that much on a dedicated drag car? 600 whp is like 850 hp at the crank... w/o nitrous, meth injection, and a ton of other WCGT illegal bits, no one is anywhere near those numbers.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

600 whp? I don't think anyone is making 600 whp on a "streetable" STI motor. Hell, is anyone even making that much on a dedicated drag car? 600 whp is like 850 hp at the crank... w/o nitrous, meth injection, and a ton of other WCGT illegal bits, no one is anywhere near those numbers.

Um, plenty of people are making over 600whp on STis, some are even daily driven. I know there is at least one guy on nasioc running 720whp.

Nasioc is down but here is one running 530whp on pump w/meth injection, they have a one on nasioc putting out 590whp. Granted that's on meth but it's also on pump not race gas. I didn't say the ESX car should make that much, but even with WCGT restrictions more than 400 at the crank should be easily doable. Unless they have to run a decent size restrictor.

http://www.wrxatlanta.com/forums/sho...ighlight=gt35r

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983345

[Kevin M]

Yeah, but the whole point of TopSpeed's thread was "we're gonna crank the boost and dyno this bitch until it breaks." Not much of a tuning philosophy for a race motor. I think that 400 whp is possible on a race-reliable tune, but that's probably the ceiling. Qualifying tunes might be able to get away with 450-475, but that would be risky.

[JC]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Yeah, but the whole point of TopSpeed's thread was "we're gonna crank the boost and dyno this bitch until it breaks." Not much of a tuning philosophy for a race motor. I think that 400 whp is possible on a race-reliable tune, but that's probably the ceiling. Qualifying tunes might be able to get away with 450-475, but that would be risky.

I didn't say they should be anywhere near 590whp, just that it was doable with a GT35R. But Scott's figure of 400 CRANK hp seems really low to me when there are street motors making way more than that.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

I didn't say they should be anywhere near 590whp, just that it was doable with a GT35R. But Scott's figure of 400 CRANK hp seems really low to me when there are street motors making way more than that.

Yeah, like Scott's.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JC

I didn't say they should be anywhere near 590whp, just that it was doable with a GT35R. But Scott's figure of 400 CRANK hp seems really low to me when there are street motors making way more than that.

I'm sure the turbo can make a pirate's booty load of power... it's got the flow. The question is how to make that power w/o nitrous/WI/MI, and with enough torque and power band to be useful at road racing, all on the supplied 104 octane.

I didn't know there were people approaching 1000hp on the 2.5L motor, but I do know that those cars would be one step from useless on anything with more turns than a drag track due to the huge late power surge. Hell, on my TD05-20G trying to get smooth exits out of a turn at autocross is an exercise in anticipating the boost and letting off the throttle as the power comes in ('course that's more an issue w/ my suspension than anything else). Nevermind the reliability of a motor like that under road race conditions.

My estimate for the current WCGT car of 400-450 was based on hearing that during the T-Hill 25hr qualifying they had an over-boost situation of like 26 psi where they estimated they were making like 650 hp. Since the WC tune is at much less boost, I figured 450hp would be a pretty realistic number. I doubt they're making much over 350 to 375 at the wheels (at least that's what I would have tuned it for if I was attempting for some semblance or reliability since I don't believe they have spare motors on the hauler at this point) which is still at or under about 500 crank hp, which is still just equalling the *stock* horsepower of the Vettes and Vipers.

[GST Mike]

Well based on the fact that the cars with the numbers being quoted within this thread all still run around the 122-126whp with there huge 530whp+ power numbers I would say that the numbers being quoted as WHP are useless.

What I am getting at is that on the dyno this car was tuned one (The ESX car that is) 400whp with a reasonable driver will run 11.4-11.6 at 120-124mph so you should be able to work out where the difference in quoted WHP is coming from. The last time the ESX car hit the rollers it span them to a little less than 400whp. The car is only allowed to run 22psi and was only running at the most 21psi all weekend (we have issues if the car goes over 22psi!).

Something else to remember when referencing street cars with C16 and meth and 30psi is that this car runs nothing better than 104 octane and has to with stand 50 minute races not mid to low 11 second passes.

Mike

[JC]

Originally Posted by GST Mike

Well based on the fact that the cars with the numbers being quoted within this thread all still run around the 122-126whp with there huge 530whp+ power numbers I would say that the numbers being quoted as WHP are useless.

I assume you mean 122-126 trap speed? Not to stand up for Topspeed but keep in mind our high here yesterday was 88F, heat and high humidity are certainly going to affect trap times. The car making 720whp ran a 10.2 w/ N20 and 2 people in the car, should be a 9 sec car at some point soon. So I wouldn't say they are useless. I'm well aware that a road course car isn't going to put anywhere near those numbers, my only point was that a turbo that can flow damn near 1000hp on the same motor + power adders should be able to add more than a 100hp on a race setup. In no way was I trying to say you should be able to make more power than you are right now. Just trying to get a decent guess of where you are at.

Originally Posted by GST Mike

The last time the ESX car hit the rollers it span them to a little less than 400whp. The car is only allowed to run 22psi and was only running at the most 21psi all weekend (we have issues if the car goes over 22psi!).

Mike

Well that answers that, it's nice having the guy who tunes the car on the board. Do they make you guys run a restrictor?