What is New Era? Not the hats...

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Unless it's a competitive race event. Wheel to wheel racers can be some of the cockiest people in the world.

Oh yeah, I was mainly talking about track days and solo type events. Door-to-door road racers are a completely different beast.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Duckie

It is just frustrating because none of you are angels on the road. You will tell me how you have track experience and driving school but that doesnt change things, by the law you guys drive outside safe limits and so do they.

For like the 9th time, hyporicy does not invalidate an argument.

Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person's claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions. This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
3. Therefore X is false.

The fact that a person makes inconsistent claims does not make any particular claim he makes false (although of any pair of inconsistent claims only one can be true - but both can be false). Also, the fact that a person's claims are not consistent with his actions might indicate that the person is a hypocrite but this does not prove his claims are false.
Examples of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

1. Bill: "Smoking is very unhealthy and leads to all sorts of problems. So take my advice and never start."
Jill: "Well, I certainly don't want to get cancer."
Bill: "I'm going to get a smoke. Want to join me Dave?"
Jill: "Well, I guess smoking can't be that bad. After all, Bill smokes."

2. Jill: "I think the gun control bill shouldn't be supported because it won't be effective and will waste money."
Bill: "Well, just last month you supported the bill. So I guess you're wrong now."

3. Peter: "Based on the arguments I have presented, it is evident that it is morally wrong to use animals for food or clothing."
Bill: "But you are wearing a leather jacket and you have a roast beef sandwich in your hand! How can you say that using animals for food and clothing is wrong!"

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...tu-quoque.html

Just because people here drive over the speed limit does not in any way validate or imply that street racing is acceptable. If you'd like to talk about speeding, that's a seperate conversation. No one here is arguing there isn't a gray area when it comes to breaking the traffic laws. What we are saying is that street racing in all its forms are way into the black, and stupid. Going 10 over the limit is in the gray, weaving in and out of traffic is pretty damn dark gray, participating in a contest of speed is way the fuck over the line and has no hit of legitimacy.

[WRXRallyBlue]

Originally Posted by nKoan

I think this is implied by the lot of us here, but there is a definite seperation that might need to be stated aloud for you and anyone else who might not visit regularly. The seperation comes from that moment when one of the two people gets it in their head that they can't lose and will do anything to win the "race". Then their judgement is compromised and they become a hazard to themselves, their friend(s), that little old lady crossing the street who just needed some milk and one egg from the supermarket and the little girl jumping rope on the street corner.

Now, that lack (or loss) of judgement can come at any time, whether it just be just playing around from stop light to stop light, or in a full blown "race". And the more people you get together the more likely a person with bad judgement will show up. And yes, I've seen it at the track too, but it is minor and usually dealt with harshly. For me (and many others) its just not worth going up against some random jackass who probably thinks he's got something to prove. On the other hand, when you go to a track, you are way more likely to find skilled drivers and most everyone leaves their ego at the gate. So more likely then not, you can just have fun and not worry about going up against some idiot who will risk your life and theirs.

There is nothing that I disagree with in this statement. As long as I got my point across

[WRXRallyBlue]

Originally Posted by sperry

participating in a contest of speed is way the fuck over the line and has no hit of legitimacy.

I give up..

[sperry]

Originally Posted by WRXRallyBlue

I give up..

Sorry bro, but you're not going to convince me that you can make a street race safe outside of closing the street to traffic, installing proper barriers/run-off, and staging safety crews and equipment on site. In which case, you're now at a race track. Therefore, under no circumstances is a street race legitimate.

[JonnydaJibba]

Originally Posted by WRXRallyBlue

I give up..

Scott was obviously applying that logic to street racing, not track racing.

[WRXRallyBlue]

Fine.

[Kevin M]

Those who are making the argument that street racing is "safe" under certain circumstances just don't get it. If me, Scott, and Nick were to run out to double R Boulevard, right this minute, and street race to say, Longley, I would say with 99.99% certainty that no people or property would by harmed by this event. The split on this issue is that apparently some people would still fail to recognize the inherent danger of the event.

Past results do not guarantee future performance.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Those who are making the argument that street racing is "safe" under certain circumstances just don't get it. If me, Scott, and Nick were to run out to double R Boulevard, right this minute, and street race to say, Longley, I would say with 99.99% certainty that no people or property would by harmed by this event. The split on this issue is that apparently some people would still fail to recognize the inherent danger of the event.

Past results do not guarantee future performance.

So, you want to meet in about 15 minutes to prove your theory?

[MPREZIV]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I met a guy at Sid's once who gave me a NEAC card. Had a DC Integra, kidna ricy, but seemed a decent guy. I had a hard time convincing him I didn't need a hookup on intakes and lowering springs though.

Hey, I got my TEINs there... they did a BUNCH of ricey shit, but simply because that's what their customers wanted!

They could get you some decent shit, but most people wanted crap, so that's what they were known for!

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by nKoan

So, you want to meet in about 15 minutes to prove your theory?

Sure, but I get 10 car (truck) lengths!

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

Hey, I got my TEINs there... they did a BUNCH of ricey shit, but simply because that's what their customers wanted!

They could get you some decent shit, but most people wanted crap, so that's what they were known for!

I based that off of what his car had on it (those were basically the only performance items) plus that's what he told me they could get me deals on.

[sybir]

Originally Posted by nKoan

So, you want to meet in about 15 minutes to prove your theory?

[mattr]I'll street race you to death![/mattr]

[Kevin M]

[sperry]And do donuts on your soul![/sperry]

[MattR]

[matt]Street racing for Jesus![/matt]

[WRXRallyBlue]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Those who are making the argument that street racing is "safe" under certain circumstances just don't get it. If me, Scott, and Nick were to run out to double R Boulevard, right this minute, and street race to say, Longley, I would say with 99.99% certainty that no people or property would by harmed by this event. The split on this issue is that apparently some people would still fail to recognize the inherent danger of the event.

Past results do not guarantee future performance.

I do get it. I also understand I could die in a plane crash but I still fly.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by MattR

[matt]Street racing for Jesus![/matt]

That reminds me, is berry boy making some new magnets for lovelock?

[MattR]

OKay guys, marginally back on topic...

From what I've read, heard, discussed, New Era is a car club, who are very much into import car shows, HIN, Nopi etc, I think a big group of them went to vegas a few weeks ago for the huge import show. Truth be told, they aren't run be street racers. From what I can tell, they take great pride in good looking quick cars, and are in it for the lifestyle (nopi phrase)

Now, it may suck for them that they have a few members who drive aggrssively and/or unsafely, becasue it has tarnished their overall image. But NE guys get torn apart on the street racing forums, I don't know how they got such a bum deal, most likely from the fact that they drive cars that "fit the stereotype" but they don't run them on the street. (I know I've been harrassed for the same thing).

Anyway, can we call an end to this street racing battle, this is the evelentybillionthousandths time we've had this discussion.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by MikeK

That reminds me, is berry boy making some new magnets for lovelock?

Have we come up with anything creative?

How about
something like:
"_____________ is ruining autocross" stickers for each of our cars, with a differnet subject in the blank spot, that could be teh funnay

[MikeK]

Hell yes!

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by MattR

Have we come up with anything creative?

How about
something like:
"_____________ is ruining autocross" stickers for each of our cars, with a differnet subject in the blank spot, that could be teh funnay

Win!
dibs on "momentum cars are ruining autocross"!

[MattR]

hahahaha...I want "Timing lights are ruining autocross!"

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by MattR

Have we come up with anything creative?

How about
something like:
"_____________ is ruining autocross" stickers for each of our cars, with a differnet subject in the blank spot, that could be teh funnay

Actually, I think having just a blank line would suffice And maybe have some of those refridgerator letter magnets to fill in the blanks.

[Duckie]

Scott: Please re read my post I am not saying that you guys driving over the speedlimit validates streetracing. I am saying that you and New Era are no different from each other save for the fact of them revving on you (I will never figure this one out as they just dont race anyway).

You all ignored everything I said about the fact that there are differing degrees of saftey or the fact that incouraging racing in its safest manor generally gets people to the track. I am in NO way saying street racing is safe so please re read my posts. It is very easy to take once sentance and form an argument. I have very valid points that aren't arguing for street racing being "correct" but rather the opposite of how to curb street racing yet you chose to ignore them.

MattR: I agree NE got a bad rep for not racing, and now they are getting a bad rep from racing they never did...must be fun to be them. I find it interesting that you guys see a few people who you consider bad drivers and the make the assumption that #1 they all suck at driving and #2 They are streetracers.

Edit: Crub is a funny word, however it makes slightly less sense than curb.

[Joeyy]

PUBLIC defined, as regards community, rather than private affairs. Public roads are just that for use by the community and not just a segment of the hole. Public streets are for mothers, families, wives, school buses with precious cargo, etc. Racing is a private affair with the participants accepting the risks involved. Leave my family out and the ones I love safe. Control your youthfull energy and focus it on something productive and if you can not control your need for speed go to the race track.