The 2012 Autocross Thread

[Kevin M]

If National adopts the 180 rule, we will most likely promptly adopt a 140 override for regional events for at least the next two years.

And what the heck did you get that runs 15s?

[rory_a]

That's what I was hoping for, a little "grandfathered" override - and I'm sure two years would be enough time to burn through a set of RS3s. Specs don't have any decent meaty 15" sizes


I hopped on the Miata bandwagon, should be picking up the car tonight, tomorrow, or this weekend. Cancelled my spot in a 17x9 RPF1 group buy for about the same amount as I paid for the whole car Hoping to have the car running and basically race ready for close to the same amount I was looking at for the RPF1s and 265/40 *Specs (which are now apparently all on closeout).

[Kevin M]

It takes next to nothing to kit out and run a Miata, especially for autocross. Just remember that if you want to leave stock class for anything but Tuner, you'll have to step up for some solid coilovers and maybe a handful of other bits like bushings. STR and CSP Miatas are seriously fast when fully built, and you'll get murdered in class consolidation by a better prepped car without them.

[rory_a]

I ain't aferd of a little murderin'. I'm used to it at this point. Thanks Joe!


But, planning on sticking to stock class as I have virtually no budget for mods. Mainly trying to keep from breaking the STi because it has a much more important purpose than fun at this point.

[Kevin M]

Well, further good news is that sufficiently good coilovers to avoid the murderin' and turn it into just a black eye is $1500 or less. I won CSP in 2006 on FM springs and AGXs, but the competition for ST and SP1 is a little tougher these days.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by rory_a

I ain't aferd of a little murderin'. I'm used to it at this point. Thanks Joe!


But, planning on sticking to stock class as I have virtually no budget for mods. Mainly trying to keep from breaking the STi because it has a much more important purpose than fun at this point.

What year Miata?

I've got some low mileage Koni Yellows on stock '96 springs just sitting in my garage that would make for a great Stock autocross setup, if you're interested in getting off your stock shocks.

[rory_a]

I'll probably be in STS so I can run 8-9" wide wheels. And I doubt I'll make it through next season without coilovers.

[rory_a]

I might have to take you up on that Scott - pretty sure the current struts are the originals. It's a boat of a car right now. What are you looking to get out of them? The seller (middle aged lady) has some different springs for it, not sure what they are. I also saw the rear sway is red. Didn't get up close and personal to check what it was.

Much investigation to do this weekend.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by rory_a

I might have to take you up on that Scott - pretty sure the current struts are the originals. It's a boat of a car right now. What are you looking to get out of them? The seller (middle aged lady) has some different springs for it, not sure what they are. I also saw the rear sway is red. Didn't get up close and personal to check what it was.

Much investigation to do this weekend.

Well, non-stock springs are illegal in stock class. But you can replace the shocks, which is why most people go with something adjustable and relatively stiff. The Koni Yellows and the Bilstiens are pretty popular specifically for stock autocross.

My yellows have about 1000 miles on them (according to the previous owner). I put coilovers on the car right after I bought it because the stock springs are too soft for RFR. The struts have remained assembled in a box since they came off the car. Should be super easy to bolt on, no spring compressor needed, if you follow the miata.net instructions (or just have Cory do it, like I did ).

Looks like the Koni's sell for about $650 new. Plus they've got the excellent FCM bumpstops that run $100 (46mm specifically made for the Koni's, if you're on the original factory bump stops, replacing them is critical for handling). And everything's pre-assembled with the stock '96 springs, whatever stock springs are selling for. So, how about an even $500?

Oh, and in stock class, you can change either the front or the rear swaybar, but not both... but deciding which one on a Miata is a huge argument. I'd suggest leaving that rear bar on the car and seeing if you like it... then decide where to go from there. But check to make sure there isn't a front bar on there also already... most people upgrade the front bar before the rear bar, so you might have a pair of the FM sways or something that would bump you out of stock class. For reference: I'm running the FCM Elite custom non-adjustable coilovers and a giant RacingBeat hollow front bar, with the stock rear bar. And I *love* it. But, if you're on a budget, $1800 coilovers are a little ridiculous on a ~$2000 car.

[rory_a]

Any issues fitting the 15x9s with the stock-style strut/spring combo?

I'm 99% after a complete visual conversion on this car - wheel/tire combo, probably coils to get it low enough, etc. Basically plan to keep it always for sale, so going after mass-attraction rather than autocross or track performance. Will be driving it, showing it, flipping it.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by rory_a

Any issues fitting the 15x9s with the stock-style strut/spring combo?

I'm 99% after a complete visual conversion on this car - wheel/tire combo, probably coils to get it low enough, etc. Basically plan to keep it always for sale, so going after mass-attraction rather than autocross or track performance. Will be driving it, showing it, flipping it.

15x9+36 with 225 width RA1's is what I'm running at the track. 15x8+20 with 205 StarSpecs is my street setup.

Jump to 9:00 to see the tire clearance:

YouTube

YouTube

I rolled my fenders for the track tires... didn't need much, and I'm running maybe an inch lower than stock. You might be able to get away with just taking out the fender liners and bending back the one mounting tab on each side if you're at stock ride height and not running huge width tires. Hell, at stock height, you might not rub at all.

On the shock side of things, I don't know how much clearance there is. You might want to stick to a lower offset 15x8 instead of a 9" wide wheel if you're staying with stock springs. They look just about as wide, and you won't rub the shock. But again, I don't know how much clearance is an issue with the stock springs, since I took them off right away. It could be a total non-issue if there's like 3" of clearance back there or something, I have no idea.

Here's what my 15x8+20's look like:







For reference, the original wheels on the car when I bought it were 15x7.5+42 with 205 StarSpecs. So you can use that as a starting point for back side clearance calculations, if you go 1.5" wider, you need to go like -20mm on the offset to keep the same backspacing, so a 15x9+22 will clear the shocks for sure... but that's 14mm more fender clearance to worry about than the +36mm wheels I'm running.

One more thing to consider: anything over about a 205 width tire on a stock-power Miata actually starts reducing top-speed. At autocross, it doesn't matter much, because you want all the low-speed grip you can possibly get, but at the track on the straights, or when considering fuel mileage on the highway, big wide tires on a Miata can be counterproductive. Just food for thought.

Finally, on those Koni yellows, there are 3 spring perch positions. The highest perch is the same as stock, which is required to be stock legal in autocross. But you can lower the car like 1.5" on this setup if you just want to be lower, though a slightly shorter bumpstop would be recommended. FCM makes a 36mm bumpstop specifically for this.

[rory_a]

I'm hoping to tuck a bit of tire, willing to sacrifice a bit of ride quality and performance.

Ground Control has a demo/mock-up set of their coilover sleeves with KYB AGX listed on eBay for $800, and I'm figuring after everything we've been through for the STi they might be will to work on that some more. That's fully assembled, NB extended top hats, with the option of swapping out the springs for other rates. I'm not sure I'd be able to find a better deal, and better compromise of form and function than that. And, aside from dealing with local friends, they don't come any easier and pleasurable to deal with than Ground Control.

I'm still up in the air over which wheels I'll end up with, but the TR C3Ms are up there, as are a few Rotas in 15x8 and 15x9. I think this will follow the same dirty track rat styling the STi ended up with, so the TRs are likely winners. Can't beat the price either.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by rory_a

I'm hoping to tuck a bit of tire, willing to sacrifice a bit of ride quality and performance.

Ground Control has a demo/mock-up set of their coilover sleeves with KYB AGX listed on eBay for $800, and I'm figuring after everything we've been through for the STi they might be will to work on that some more. That's fully assembled, NB extended top hats, with the option of swapping out the springs for other rates. I'm not sure I'd be able to find a better deal, and better compromise of form and function than that. And, aside from dealing with local friends, they don't come any easier and pleasurable to deal with than Ground Control.

I'm still up in the air over which wheels I'll end up with, but the TR C3Ms are up there, as are a few Rotas in 15x8 and 15x9. I think this will follow the same dirty track rat styling the STi ended up with, so the TRs are likely winners. Can't beat the price either.

C3M's? ....yep, they rock. They look like Prodrive tarmac wheels from the WRC years.



Regarding the suspension, keep in mind that a low Miata handles like crap. Even going an inch lower than stock means having to make a serious effort to properly manage the bumpstop transition, since Miata suspensions intentionally use the bumpstop as a non-linear spring to ramp up firmness when cornering. The GC kit was a serious contender when I was picking my setup (was planning on using it with the Koni's I already had on the car), but I decided I didn't want to have to do things over and over like I did on my WRX while sorting things out for the track (ride heights, bumpstops, damper settings, alignment, etc). So, I just went with FatCat and had them build me something non-adjustable specific to my use goals, bolted them on, and have loved the car.

So, you can go pretty low and build a sweet looking car (see below), but it will likely be awful on the street comfort-wise, and hard to drive at autocross if the bumpstop transitions are harsh or inconsistent. Not saying you're wasting your time building a low Miata, just know what you're getting yourself into.

[rory_a]

Looks like I'll be running in Tuner with Derek et all. I'm only buying one set of wheels, and not limiting myself to 15x7.5. I want at least 15x8 with low offset - was looking at Grid Vs but I think the 0 offset is a bit too low, I like how your 15x8 +20 fit, I'd just like to see it a bit lower (accepting any detrimental effects to handling, yes, I'm vane).

That red car looks fantastic, but even I think it's a bit too low. Stoly's Flipper over on Club Roadster seems perfect to me - about 11.5" hub to fender all around. Looks great, not too low, well fitted, etc. He's raised it and added OE style flares since this pic, but this is what I'm after.




Also, as the car's white, and since I was thoroughly with the look the Montego Blue top gave your car, I'm searching for a contrasting top. Found a Merlot top that'd be perfect, just need to figure out a way to finagle the finances to pick it up. Thinking that with a red Bride interior would be the tits. Top color would determine wheels and wheel color, so at this point top's been moved up in the list of priorities.

[rory_a]

Actually, considering those are 15x9 +10, and they're 13mm further into/beyond the fender than the 15x8 +0, that might work very well. Basically planning on picking up the Gunmetal/Machined Grid-Vs and eventually having the centers color matched to the Merlot top, if I can nab it before it's gone.


*and Bride interior would likely, shamefully, be rep red Vios seats, rep red door card material, etc. Ballin' on a budget yo!

[k-dogg39]

Originally Posted by rory_a

I'm only buying one set of wheels...

I used to say that.

[rory_a]

No but for really though. I don't have the money for more than one set.


Found a set of 15x8 949s, I would love some in 15x9 but the cost over TR C3Ms is just not worth it. Black C3Ms is what I'll likely end up with, unless my vanity wins out. I'm still pretty sure I'll end up with a track-slut inspired car, just not sure if I'll throw a little nostalgia in the mix.

Once I get the car and get some pics I'll put together a thread in the General section so I can stop muddying up the 2012 AutoX talk...

[MikeK]

Hey Scott, thanks for picking up my trophy today!

[k-dogg39]

I will stab you when I see you next.

[sperry]

Holy shit!

[MattR]

Best shit-talkin' ever. hahaha

[Kevin M]

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MattR

Best shit-talkin' ever. hahaha

The best would have been if Mike told Kevin "don't worry, next year's trophy has your name on it!"
















(sorry Kevin!)

[k-dogg39]

it's all good. I already have a couple of them.

[Dean]

That is some serious $h1+! Well played sir...