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Technical Chat Ask and answer technical car questions. |
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#1 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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I've been thinking about heaving separate summer and winter tires. At the moment, I'm still on the RE92s. 225/50/R16 seems good for the summer, and some 205/55/R16
I'm just looking for a good value with increased dry/wet performance and won't get too bad when it gets cold at night or at high elevation in Colorado. I'm thinking about running them Jun-Oct. Any suggestions? It seems difficult to find out what the cold (non-snow) performance of a summer tire is. If a tire can't provide reasonable performance at 30-50F, that's going to force me to run the winter tires much more than I want to. For winter tires, I'm thinking about picking something like the Nokian WRs (possibly getting them siped). (I have never used anything other than an all season tire before) |
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#2 |
EJ22T
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Reno
Posts: 9,445
Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red
Class: 19 FP
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I just drove from Vacaville to Reno and back, and temperatures were in the 20s on the way back. I have Bridgestone Potenza S03s, and I love them to death. Best all-around tire evar.
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#3 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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So is this "the compound of summer tires will harden up in cold weather" thing oversold or is it just certain tires?
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#4 |
EJ207
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 39n53, 119w90
Posts: 2,698
Car: RX-8
Class: CS maybe
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I can't remember hearing of anyone around here who have had their street tire compound harden up to the point of being noticed. But I'm sure someone will chime in if they've had this,
![]() There was a little discussion on tires in an earlier post in this forum. http://www.seccs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=832 It sounds like you want to stay on your stock wheels or keep the same wheel size, is that right? |
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#5 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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Yes, I intend to purchase a second set of stockers. I have no interest in the bling factor, and used stock wheels are the cheapest I've seen. (Although if there were a lighter set of wheels for not too much more, I could get tempted.
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#6 | |
Seņor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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In pure bang for your buck on the low price end, the Sumitomo HTR+ can't be beat. I have had them on 2 cars now, and Debbie had them on her WRX. Good performance wet. dry, cold, hot, and wear quite well. The Pirelli P7000 is about $20 more a tire, and is a slightly better performer, probably because it has a softer compound that wears slightly faster but I have no first hand experience with it. You can spend a lot more than these tires, but you won't get significant increases in perfomance in the areas you are describing IMHO.
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#7 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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JC
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#8 |
EJ251
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 616
Car: 01 is300 / 87 rx4
Class: ?
drive fast take chances
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For a summer tire these Eagle f1's are the shit but ever one likes the Azenis. From what I have read these tire hold up better and they are better in the autox.
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#9 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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#10 |
EJ205
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 2,076
Car: 12+tires
Class: Spec.
without hard work, nothing grows but weeds
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Hey guys .. a quick question to you all.. Do they make an RE92 tire in the STi Size?
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#11 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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I've been thinking about the Bridgestone RE750s. They seem like a pretty good value for the performance and lifespan (I'm guessing they'll probably last 30-40k miles). They seem similar to the S-03s, but with a bit harder compound.
My understanding is that summer tires can perform well in the rain... it just depends on the tire. I have no intentions of putting the tires through slush or snow, but it does get cold at night here. How much more grip can I expect from a tire like the RE750 vs. the Sumitomo or P7000 tires? |
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#12 |
EJ205
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 2,076
Car: 12+tires
Class: Spec.
without hard work, nothing grows but weeds
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A friend of mine in Albany says he has them on his STi?
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LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) ![]() GC,GD,GM ![]() |
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#13 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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I had RE730s, they were a good tire. I'd buy Kumho MXs if I were you. JC
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#14 | |
Seņor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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Unless you are driving on the street at 9-10/10ths, or doing some track/autrocross the bigger softer tread blocks on the extreme summer tires just suck up engine power, may make the stearing pull with road changes, not perform as well in the wet, etc. Debbie has run the RE92s back to back with the HTR+s on the same car so maybe she can comment on relative feel. I put the HTR+s on my A4 after PZero Rosos and found them to be a much better rain tire with very similar dry performance. TireRack also has user reviews, but you must take them with a grain of salt, just like our opinions. Going from a worn out set of X to a new set of Y often make poeple love or hate Y which is usually an unfair comparison. Also, people don't necesarily want to say how crappy a tire they just spent $150 a piece on is. I just yesterday switched from fairly full tread RE92s to 17" Azenis sports, and the re92s are a much friendlier tire in the cold, and as JC put it, the Azenis are like lego blocks when cold. Even at 35PSI plus cold, they felt flat spotted until I got some heat into them this morning, and it was above frezing, and maybe into the mid 40s by the time I was moving today. I have never had that experince with any all season tires.
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#15 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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What exactly does "driving on lego blocks" mean? Just that the ride is harsher or that handling is compromised as well? The tires do warm up after a few minutes of highway driving, right?
I've been searching tire rack for a discussions of some all-season dry/wet performance vs. some summer tires. Could you paste in a link? If I can get similar dry traction as a good summer tire from a good all-season and have it perform better in the wet/snow, I'm all for it. From reading different forums (NASIOC, ClubWRX, and i-Club), I've been led to believe that the whole advantage of having separate summer/winter tires is better summer and better winter performance for the cost of having a second set of wheels. The better winter part is obvious since I can go with true snow tires. But I do want better summer performance, too, to make it worth it. ![]() |
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#16 |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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There is a ~90 deg turn just past my house. I take it at 30-35 in normal driving with my snow tires. The car starts to slide at ~25 in the morning on the Azenis. Keep in mind it's really cold here, but you get the idea.
JC
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#17 |
EJ207
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 39n53, 119w90
Posts: 2,698
Car: RX-8
Class: CS maybe
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After putting 36k+ miles on the RE92s of course the Sumitomos felt wonderful. I got them in November, so only had a couple of months on them, and less than 2k miles. They performed well in the rain/snow for the times I used them - but take it with a grain of salt that I didn't have them long enough to really have a good experience base on them.
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#18 | |
Seņor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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Lexus IS300 sport sedans, 225/45-17 Ultra High Perfomance All Season, May 2002 : http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...reModel=HTR%2B Ultra High Performance Summer, Oct. 2002: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...CSTA+Supra+712 These are just an example, and that May day may have been nothing like the October one, but at least you have the same car and tire size. In this example, the All Seasons actually out G the summer tires. As I said earlier, All seasons are the largest market segment for tire manufacturers, so most of their R&D goes there. This is why you will find some incrediable tires that may well fit your three season needs.
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#19 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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Ah, thanks for the inspiration
![]() I decided to make a chart of the wet/dry g-forces data from the useful data on TireRack's website. By useful, I mean this: All the recent tests on Tirerack have used a BMW 330Ci sedan and included a Goodyear Eagle RS-A all season tire as a baseline. I've taken the raw data and adjusted it based on the results of the baseline for that test. The chart is included below. The blue background is over the all season tires. The summer tires have the white background. Maroon bars: Wet performance Blue bars: Dry performance ![]() I'm not sure I'm ready to interpret the results, but it would seem that wet handling is a bigger improvement for summer tires than dry handling. (BTW, I adjusted the values by dividing a tire's score by the baseline tire's score for that test. The baseline is normalized to 1.) Any thoughts or suggestions? |
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#20 |
EJ22
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 144
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I've been thinking about doing the same for wet/dry braking, but not all the tests Tire Rack has done have included braking info.
Here is an article I found on Tire Rack directly comparing a couple all-seasons to a summer tire. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/p6000_rd.jsp |
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#21 |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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Nice data compilation, I likes.
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#22 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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#23 |
Seņor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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I like it. Unfortunately, it does not include many of the tires that we have been discussing because the test on them are older, and done on the lexus.
I would take note that for the most part, we are looking at less than a tenth of a G in spread on these. And the article you found is only marginally useful since it does not have any wet data. We know summer tires are faster in the dry...
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#24 |
Seņor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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I just realized, only 2 of the All Seasons are Ulta High Performance and available in 225. The Continental ContiExtremeContact , and the Yokohama AVS dB S2. The rest are lower performance All Season. And of course, it doesn't look like they have compared the with any of the other UHPAS we have talked about. Rats...
They also appear to have not tested some of the less expensive MAX And UHP Summer's on the new cars. Double RAts. Have you ever told us what your budget is? UHPS start at $66 a piece. UHPAS at $73 and MPS at $127 for 225s Not sure yuu get twice the performance for twice the price from 66 to 127...
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#25 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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