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#1 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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So I've been talking over email w/ Mike Shields (of SPD Tuning) occationally since he helped me out with those Group-N rear brake rotors to get the 2-pots working on my WRX.
I was asking him about tuning and discussing my broken motor and the effects of high altitude, and he dropped some tech about how they tune their Group-N car for the Pike's Peak hillclimb. I thought some of you guys would be interested in what he had to say about racing a car up to 14,000 feet! ![]() Quote:
And, yes that's right, Pat Richards finished the last 7 miles of the climb spinning the center diff to power only the front wheels! ![]() BTW: Mike Shields is one of the original Subaru gurus... he runs SPD and was the original Prodrive importer to the US! Check out more tech over at http://www.spdusa.com/
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? Last edited by sperry; 2005-06-28 at 03:37 PM. |
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#2 |
JDM Cowboy
Real Name: Nick Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 8,642
Car: 2015 Mazda 3
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Man, that is some good info there. I think I grasped most of it.
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#3 |
The Don
Real Name: Aaron Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,097
Car: '97 Legacy / '05 FXT
Class: low
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Good stuff.
Scott's current motor issue aside, this is why we've never been about cranking max boost on the cars we're tuning; Scott's car's sweet spot in terms of the turbo was right around 16 PSI, as opposed to the 22 PSI peak that would have made more power, but put the car at higher risk during hard driving at higher elevations and different conditions. That's great info from Mike, he's an incredible guy to talk to, besides his opinion many years back that I should never have touched the suspension on my car ![]()
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Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic. |
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#4 |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Ya Mike's the man even if he did lose.
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. |
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#5 |
EJ205
Real Name: Tim Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 1,384
Car: '94 L
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Now I understand why so many guys with DSMs have trouble (aside from poorly made parts). Whenever you ask a DSM guy a question like, "How can I squeeze more power out of my stock motor?" Their first responce is, "Buy a boost controller."
There is some really good information in there. I now understand to some extent why so much work goes into setting up a motor for more boost. |
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#6 |
EJ205
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Truckee
Posts: 1,948
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Nice info. Hmmmmm I'm running 22 psi at 6500 feet? Of course I am not racing it at this altitude. Scott, what actually happened to your motor? I haven't made the last couple meets so I don't know the low down. Sorry in advance if it is toast.
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#7 |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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The short version of the motor story:
52,000+ miles + 16psi + repeated pulls to 7200rpm in anger + hard lateral G's (potentially reducing oil pressure, although Mr. Shields disagrees) + known lean condition on cylinder #3 due to stock fuel rails = probable detonation on #3 which damaged the bearing and left me w/ rod-knock Since the cost of inspecting and repairing whatever's wrong w/ the EJ20 is probably more than just replacing the short-block, I'm not going to even bother to crack the motor. The guys at the shop are just going to install an EJ257 long block on the car. Afterall, if it breaks, and you don't make it better, it's just gonna break again. So... once they're done (probably late next week) I should have a 2.5L STi motor w/ the GT30-10. We're also probably going to do the TGV deletes, and I'm leaning towards a small front mount, since the GT30-10 spools so fast on that block I can get away with some increased lag.
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? |
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#8 |
El Matador
Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 10,660
Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma
Class: ?
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Or the Short-Short version.....Scott was trying to keep up with Mike K and Me all day at Solo trials, and blew his shit up....
![]() ( I know Scott is going to blow my doors off when the motor is done, so I have to get my shots in now.) On a side note...Lets make sure everyone is at the meet Thursday night, so we can catch up on stories, parts, racin, etc..(I've been absent a lot lately)...I'm feeling sentimental.
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#9 |
El Matador
Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 10,660
Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma
Class: ?
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BTW, great read there Scott, thanks for posting that up...Make sure you share more of the stuff you get from Mike...
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"Dallas..We have a problem.” |
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#10 | |
EJ205
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Truckee
Posts: 1,948
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Scott your car will rock! Thank god those STI blocks are "fairly" reasonable. |
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#11 |
EJ251
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sparks
Posts: 526
Car: 2005 2.5 rs cgm
Class: TDSP
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Wow, man I had no idea 14,000 ft the air is half as dense than sea level. That means that were around 75% of sea level density.
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Can anybody fly this thing? |
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#12 | |
EJ205
Real Name: It is real! Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: RNO
Posts: 2,367
Car: 1998 Impreza Wagon, 1991 Legacy Turbo Sedan, 2003 Nissan Xterra
Class: tvFree
Yes, I'll fix it for you. Again.
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Wow, I even got a little out of that tech post --- that was pretty clear information.
Scott, so that's what happened, eh? Harshness. 7500rpm in anger? Send the next Expedition-driving-bimbo the bill. The new setup sounds like it will be really sweet. Quote:
Here's table I found online here: http://www.auf.asn.au/meteorology/section1a.html, but I don't know if it's exactly accurate, but doing the calculations using formulas found at the JPL's website could confirm it.....plus, the curve rate varies dependant on latitude. ![]()
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"Trend Number One is that people aren't getting any smarter." Dogbert |
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#13 | |
EJ251
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sparks
Posts: 526
Car: 2005 2.5 rs cgm
Class: TDSP
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I was right. looks like close to 75 percent to me, At least gardnerville is like 6,000 feet, or something like that.
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Can anybody fly this thing? |
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#14 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Ugh, no more tables, I'm having college flashbacks.
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. |
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#15 |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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IIRC, air pressure decreases logarithmically with altitude... but that isn't quite what I'm seeing in that chart... is there anyone that's been out of college less time than me that might remember? I haven't used PV=nRT, and the rest of that ideal-gas stuff in like 9 years!
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? Last edited by sperry; 2005-06-29 at 12:45 PM. |
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#16 |
EJ251
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sparks
Posts: 526
Car: 2005 2.5 rs cgm
Class: TDSP
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[QUOTE=sperry]
hard lateral G's (potentially reducing oil pressure, although Mr. Shields disagrees) + So are there any internally bafled, or trap door style oil pans for Subarus?
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Can anybody fly this thing? |
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#17 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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[QUOTE=bruspeed]
Quote:
'Course my EJ20 did have a pretty banged up oil pan... it's hit some significant rocks, and once the car slipped off the jack and landed on the oil pan, so it wasn't exactly the shape it was supposed to be, which might have exaserbated the situation. A baffled pan might not be necessary. And as Mike Shields told me, he's never seen oiling issues on any of their rally cars, and they're drivin quite hard. So the oil think might have contributed, but there's no reason not to suspect the simple age of the motor and the hard load I was putting on it as the primary culprits.
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? |
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#18 | |
EJ205
Real Name: Deede Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,789
Car: '96 4runner
Class: none.
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![]() (sorry for the additional off-topic) BTW I found the information especially interesting, thanks Scott. |
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#19 | |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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