Questions about suspension upgrades for my 00 RS

[Libila]

I posted this over on Nasioc and the only helpful reply I got was from Kostamojen who was a former Reno member I believe. Anyway, here is what I posted-

"I've been looking at many different options for the suspension on my new (to me) '00 RS and I'm hoping to get a little help from people that have experience.

I had first planned on using SPT/KYB struts with Prodrive springs and STi tophats. I purchased the struts and now I've changed my mind. I will be racing auto cross and open track days frequently (hopefully) and I thought that I would benefit more from a better suspension setup than your basic strut/spring combo. I then began looking at what coilovers were out there for Subarus then reality set in, I'm on a budget So I started looking for other alternatives.

I got a recommendation from a few members over at rs25.com for the Ground Control/Koni combo with camber plates. I remember hearing great things about this combo from the Honda guys (I started auto crossing in a Honda). This combo is affordable, proven, and it gives enough adjustability options for a newb like me to begin learning about adjusting and tuning my own suspension. It seems as if my mind is made up but if that were the case I wouldn't have posted this. I still need help on the smaller details.

Like I had mentioned earlier, I have already purchased four KYB AGX/SPT struts. I know the popular combo for the GCs are Konis (revalved is even better from what I understand) but what about using my KYB/SPTs instead? What benefit would the Konis give over my struts?

I also wanted to pick your brains about spring rates. This car is my daily driver so I would like to use a reasonable spring rate, suggestions?

Lastly (for now) I wanted to get some input on camber plates and tophats. I've heard of and seen a few people only using camber plates up front with a hardened tophat in the rear. What is the reason for this? Is it a good idea or would it be wiser to have camber plates at all four corners?

That's all I have for you guys now; I've got to get to work. Thanks in advance."

Here is what Kostamojen wrote back-

"Pick my brain!!!

Personally, I think the AGX's are fine. Koni's are better, yes, but cost about twice as much because of installation costs to get them into the struts... Pain in the butt.

If you want stiffer spring rates, just go with the Ground Control coilover kit for the stock style struts, and get spring rates like 275/225. I had that before on my last car with the AGX's, and all the reno folks can tell you how well my car handled

Right now though on my new car, I just have the AGX's with SPT springs (215/195 rates) and the STI tophats. If I turn up my struts to 3 front, 7 rear, its as stiff as my last suspenison was and worked GREAT at the last autox I was at. There is nearly 0 body roll at those settings. I can even fiddle with the settings to get the car to handle completely differently... Last weekend I had it at 3 front, 6 rear, which is more of an understeer style setup, but taking it out to some backroads I found out that at those settings I could THROW The car into a corner and just let up on the gas for a sec to get the tail out then get back on it and it would tuck back in to where I was aiming the car Great fun! I usually run it at 2 front, 5 rear for the street, with 2 front/6 rear for agressive driving.

As far as camber plates, I cant get much front camber I found out with this setup... Only about -1 degree The rear, using rear camber bolts, I can get over a degree, possibly up to -1.5 degrees. For autox, it would probably be better to get front cambler plates. Rear camber plates arent really neccessary IMHO unless its a total 100% track/autox car (unless they came with the suspension you bought)"

Can anyone else give me some suggestions and/or help me out with my questions?

[JonnydaJibba]

wow tim too much to read sorry laziness has conquered again.

[Kevin M]

Tim, your avatar is cracking me up. That aside... umm what's your question exactly? I got up a short time ago, so I'm not quite functional yet.

[JonnydaJibba]

Also, how did you test your struts if they are still in a box and your car is currently a thoooooooosand miles from where you are now?? Somebody else have AGXs on a Scooby?

[Libila]

To shorten things up; My questions are as follows-

1. Will using my KYB AGXs with Ground Control coilover sleeves be a waste compared to using Konis?

1a. If so, why?

2. What would ideal spring rates be for a daily driven RS that will see as many autocrosses and track days as possible?

3. What should I do about tophats/camber plates?

3a. Camber plates in the front and hardened tophats in the rear?

3b. Can someone educate me on what to look for in camber plates and a beginers guide to using them?

I hope that narrows it down for you Kevin

Jonny, what do you mean by, "...how did you test your struts if they are still in a box..." I never said anything about testing my struts.

[MikeSTI]

dont know much about the RS, but I think for 3a. it would be a PITA to adjust camber plates in the rear when you could just use a camber bolt instead to gain the same effect? atleast thats my thinking about plates in the rear, you would need to cut out big holes in the rear decklid to make it easy to do......

[Libila]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

dont know much about the RS, but I think for 3a. it would be a PITA to adjust camber plates in the rear when you could just use a camber bolt instead to gain the same effect? atleast thats my thinking about plates in the rear, you would need to cut out big holes in the rear decklid to make it easy to do......

That's why I was thinking (and advised) to use camber plates up front and STi hardened tophats in the rear.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by Libila

To shorten things up; My questions are as follows-

1. Will using my KYB AGXs with Ground Control coilover sleeves be a waste compared to using Konis?

1a. If so, why?

2. What would ideal spring rates be for a daily driven RS that will see as many autocrosses and track days as possible?

3. What should I do about tophats/camber plates?

3a. Camber plates in the front and hardened tophats in the rear?

3b. Can someone educate me on what to look for in camber plates and a beginers guide to using them?

I hope that narrows it down for you Kevin

Jonny, what do you mean by, "...how did you test your struts if they are still in a box..." I never said anything about testing my struts.

1) No, unless you plan to go after a Divisional or National Championship in Solo 2.

2) My opinion here, but I'd say no higher than the 275/225 Steve mentioned. I never confirmed it, but based on butt-dyno comparisons, I think my car was close to 5k front 4k rear. I never did find anything remotely reliable about what the exact spring rates were. I do know that anything stiffer will basically shake apart the car after enough time, even if the ride hasn't annoyed you by then. So if you go with GCs, 250-275 front and 200-225 rear would be good, or you could save money and just get som SPTs or Prodrive springs. But there is an advantage to the GCs, which is they allow more camber adjustment if you have plates. On to number 3...

3) I had the STi Group N tophats, which do a great job of taking the play out of shock bound, but I long planned to switch to camber plates for camber adjustment. It's worth it to have the extra cmaber and toe at autocross, but still have reasonably conservative camber the rest of the time. Rear camber plates are hard to come by, so for those you might want to just use Group Ns. Besides, with bolts you can get up to -2.5 degrees, which is probably more than you want anyway. I loved having tons of rear camber personally, but I'm goofy when it comes to alignments. Racecomp just came out with GORGEOUS front camber plates, but they're expensive. Cusco makes some, and a couple other vendors. I personally would only get a type that only has one axis of adjustability, like the Cuscos, instead of the sliding plate type (MRT).

[Libila]

Thanks for the responce Kevin.

I'm going to race the last three or four auto crosses in Texas and finish out the season and get a feel for the car.