Go economy!

[Nick Koan]

IIRC Eggegg was under Bansemer, and according to Jason and Matt, it wasn't too bad there.

[eggeegg]

Yes, still with Bansemer. I think just one person from our group was let go. No major changes, just some shifting of cubicles.

[eggeegg]

Yes, that's where I get new movies on Tuesdays, and sometimes candy. I've seen your car there before also.

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

^I think I see your car at Walmart in south Reno all the time.

[sperry]

GM stock at a 66 year low.

http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/...-UPDATE-2.html

If there's a bailout for these schmucks, it better include a requirement that they drop 70% of their vehicles and start selling some decent cars. I gotta be honest, if GM went away, the only car I'd miss is the Corvette.

In other news... IGT hit $8.58 today, which is like a 9 year low. I wish they would reissue my g-damned stock options at this price!

[Kunikos]

Well that blows because yesterday I bought stock at $10 a share, thinking it had bottomed out already. LOL Well, regardless I will be holding it for a few years-- this isn't a short-term investment.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Kunikos

this isn't a short-term investment.

... just short term

[Tahoe C5]

I gotta be honest, if GM went away, the only car I'd miss is the Corvette.

I agree, it's gotta be done, time for some tough love.

[Tahoe C5]

Can you believe that the big three CEO's arrived in DC yesterday in separate private jets to go begging for $25 BILLION from the government i.e. taxpayers!! What a crock of s*#t!

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Tahoe C5

Can you believe that the big three CEO's arrived in DC yesterday in separate private jets to go begging for $25 BILLION from the government i.e. taxpayers!! What a crock of s*#t!

Geniuses, these guys are not.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Tahoe C5

Can you believe that the big three CEO's arrived in DC yesterday in separate private jets to go begging for $25 BILLION from the government i.e. taxpayers!! What a crock of s*#t!

Corporate rules dictate that their CEOs fly in private jets for security purposes. I'm sure they didn't even think about it.

[Kunikos]

Originally Posted by Tahoe C5

Can you believe that the big three CEO's arrived in DC yesterday in separate private jets to go begging for $25 BILLION from the government i.e. taxpayers!! What a crock of s*#t!

Not flying on a private jet for one day is hardly going to save the company from the brink of failure. It costs, what, $2,500 to operate the jet for one trip in comparison with the $25 billion they need? The mock outrage over this is is really just a political red herring. You think that congressmen don't fly around in private jets all the time?

The real outrage should be over bailing out yet another company without bailing out the shareholders, all while claiming that America is about free market capitalism. Let's all either stop giving that phrase lip service and stop giving hand-outs to inept companies who will fail regardless, or let's go whole-hog socialist and make the Detroit 3 into nationalized auto-makers.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kunikos

Not flying on a private jet for one day is hardly going to save the company from the brink of failure. It costs, what, $2,500 to operate the jet for one trip in comparison with the $25 billion they need? The mock outrage over this is is really just a political red herring. You think that congressmen don't fly around in private jets all the time?

The real outrage should be over bailing out yet another company without bailing out the shareholders, all while claiming that America is about free market capitalism. Let's all either stop giving that phrase lip service and stop giving hand-outs to inept companies who will fail regardless, or let's go whole-hog socialist and make the Detroit 3 into nationalized auto-makers.

Red herring or not, if you're going to ask the taxpayers to save your ass, you ought to do a better PR job, which includes looking like you're doing everything you can to save money, even if it's not going to make any real difference in the outcome.

That said, the auto industry (and the banking industry for that matter) deserve to fail. Especially in the auto industry, the writing was on the wall... did they really think that people would continue to pay $50,000 for $15,000 trucks with leather seats? Even if there weren't the gas or environmental crises, none of the US manufacturers had anything in the pipeline simply for when the public got tired of SUVs.

[ScottyS]

Originally Posted by sperry

That said, the auto industry (and the banking industry for that matter) deserve to fail. Especially in the auto industry, the writing was on the wall... did they really think that people would continue to pay $50,000 for $15,000 trucks with leather seats? Even if there weren't the gas or environmental crises, none of the US manufacturers had anything in the pipeline simply for when the public got tired of SUVs.

Preeeecisely. They have been taking huge advantage of the virtual money supply (credit), in combination with cheaper technology and lax international trade regs for decades! They have no-one to blame but themselves for cruising along with the windowshade on the dash pretending that it was going to last forever.....think of it as part of the long-term cost of doing business......businesses fail all the time because the owners can't think ahead, the BIG 3 need to join that party.

I am sick over the fact that our populace is so stupid to even consider the possibilty of .gov-sponsored bailouts.

[sperry]

I wouldn't be bothered by bailouts if in fact we were a socialist country that was regulating industry all along. I have a problem with allowing a bunch of companies to make a mess of money during the boom while requiring the middle class to pick up the tab when boom turns to bust. Live by the free-market sword, die by the free-market sword.

If those companies want to be rescued, then all the CEO's that made the most need to be the folks putting in the most money for the bailout. Problem is, they can lose half their fortunes and still walk away from the situation filthy rich. Meanwhile some poor UAW line worker is going to lose his job, pension, etc while being used to making $30/hr for borderline unskilled labor. Where's someone that's used to making good money and has no skills applicable to another industry going to go? That's the guy that the CEO should be paying back his last decade's worth of bonuses to so he can go back to school to learn a new trade.

The right answer is to let all the automakers declare bankruptcy, and either wait for the void to get filled by some new manufacturers that can do things right, or to fully socialize the auto industry like France did with Renault. Either way, the guys at the top that are flying around in their private jets deserve to be out of work.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Kunikos

Not flying on a private jet for one day is hardly going to save the company from the brink of failure. It costs, what, $2,500 to operate the jet for one trip in comparison with the $25 billion they need? The mock outrage over this is is really just a political red herring. You think that congressmen don't fly around in private jets all the time?

The real outrage should be over bailing out yet another company without bailing out the shareholders, all while claiming that America is about free market capitalism. Let's all either stop giving that phrase lip service and stop giving hand-outs to inept companies who will fail regardless, or let's go whole-hog socialist and make the Detroit 3 into nationalized auto-makers.

Most public officials fly commercial as far as I know. First class maybe, but commercial.

If their PR departments had a clue, they would have caravaned up with their accompanying staff in the most modern energy efficient prototypes they have in their fleets. There are so many cost cutting things they could do that would cut burn rates substantially. Selling jets is among them...

And why the heck would you ever bail out the shareholders? The owners of a company are the last concern in any bailout as it should be. That is probably the last piece of capitalism that they have not completely destroyed with these socialist bailouts.

A Pre-packaged bailout is the only way to truly save any of the the little 3 auto names. Breaking labor and dealer contracts is the only thing that will let them restructure to the point where they have a chance to be competitive. And I say little because their market cap is about that of a cup of coffee, or at least the market cap of Starbucks. Yep, F and GM combined are 5B, and SBUX is 5.7B. Don't know what chrysler is, but probably less than GM's 1.7B.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Kunikos

It costs, what, $2,500 to operate the jet for one trip in comparison with the $25 billion they need?

No, it's more in the range of $20,000 actual. My CEO spent over $50k on a helicopter to take him to dinner, it happens.

[sperry]

This is hysterical...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

...but not so much in a good way. This Peter Shiff guy should be allowed to just walk up and punch any financial pundit on Fox News with total impunity.

[Nick Koan]

I remember watching that first part of the clip earlier this year. Made me laugh. Especially the d-bag that disagrees with him. Schiff owes a lot of people at Fox cockpunches.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Meanwhile some poor UAW line worker is going to lose his job, pension, etc while being used to making $30/hr for borderline unskilled labor. Where's someone that's used to making good money and has no skills applicable to another industry going to go?

I have very little sympathy for UAW guys who never went to college and run an air rachet for a living that make a hell of a lot more than I do.

[van]

suck scc done
despite their downhill product the last couple of years, it was still the only car mag I bought of the stands whenever I saw a new issue

[Kunikos]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I have very little sympathy for UAW guys who never went to college and run an air rachet for a living that make a hell of a lot more than I do.

Yeah, what a racket.

[Joeyy]

Why don't the oil companies bailout the automakers?

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

Why don't the oil companies bailout the automakers?

Turns out Japanese cars don't actually burn rice, so the oil companies have no stake in whose cars are burning their product up in a wasteful and impudent manner.

[cody]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

Why don't the oil companies bailout the automakers?

That's a freakin' great idea. It's in their best interest to keep American gas guzzlers comin'.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

Why don't the oil companies bailout the automakers?

This is actually genius in its simplicity.

The US Gov't should windfall tax the oil companies the exact amount they give to the automakers in a bailout.