Getting new tires, wondering what to try

[khail19]

Summer only use, still undecided between 225/45/17 and 235/40/17. Rims are 17x7.5 Enkei RP02s. Last tires were the Azenis ST115 in 225/45, and I really don't have any complaints about them. Looking mostly at BFG G-force sport, Kumho SPT, or another set of ST115s. I'd like decent dry and wet traction, and low noise would be nice. Not too worried about autocross type traction, or I'd get some Hankooks and call it a day. Let me know if you guys have heard anything about the BFGs or SPTs, I can get either one cheaper than the Falkens from Tirerack.

[sperry]

I'm a big fan of the ST-115's. They're *very* quiet, and have great wet traction. But they don't last quite as long as I wish they would considering that they're not an all out handling tire. But that said, they remain my road-only summer tire of choice.

And since the ST-115's run a little narrow, you can easily go with the 235/40/17's. They fit like 225 RT-215's, and you'll get a bit of acceleration due to the gearing advantage, though your speedo will read a bit high. You might even be able to go wider than 235... I've got 255/40/17 ST-115's on my SVX, but it's got more room than an Impreza and 8" wide wheels... I think a 7.5" width rims is too narrow for 255's... maybe see if some 245's would fit?

[MPREZIV]

I got those BFG's on my 17's right now. The severe camber hasn't caused too much excessive wear, which I'm pretty impressed with. Decent wet traction, dry is sacrificed a tad, but still not bad. They're not as sticky on dry as my Yoko ES100's, but I can't really complain much. It's a decent balance wet/dry, as the Yoko's are shit in the rain, IMO.

The BFG's have started to make a bit of noise tho, but they prob. wouldn't be as bad if you don't run any negative toe for handling purposes.

I used to have a set of Kumho Ecsta mx (i think that's what they were) and they were bald in NO TIME! Cheap, but I would have liked a few more miles out of them. Kinda ruined my taste for Kumho altogether.

[Dean]

I'd try the SPTs. With your discount, they appear to be an amazing tires for the price. They beat the ES100, and g-Force pretty much accross the board.

For a daily driver, I'm not sure I'd change sizes unless they were the same diameter. I hate wonky speedos.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

I used to have a set of Kumho Ecsta mx (i think that's what they were) and they were bald in NO TIME! Cheap, but I would have liked a few more miles out of them. Kinda ruined my taste for Kumho altogether.

MXs are like the 215s, almost a competition tire, and wear very fast... Don't judge Kumho wear just on that experience. I bet they stuck real well in the dry, but that's about it....

[khail19]

Originally Posted by Dean

I'd try the SPTs. With your discount, they appear to be an amazing tires for the price. They beat the ES100, and g-Force pretty much accross the board.

For a daily driver, I'm not sure I'd change sizes unless they were the same diameter. I hate wonky speedos.

I'm highly tempted to try those, especially at $77 (225/45) each. Dry traction is plenty for the street, and wet traction looks outstanding. I just wish I knew if they are noisier than the ST115. Where are you seeing they beat the BFG? I only saw it tested against the ES100 and the General Exclaim. The BFG was tested against the Kumho 712, and it seems that the 712 has it beat. I guess if the SPT is Kumho's upgrade from the 712, then it stands to reason that it will beat the BFG as well.

As far as going to 235/40/17, it only changes the speedo 1.1 mph at 60mph, not enough for me to worry about. As slow as my car is though, the added acceleration would be nice. And it's only $5-$10 more per tire, seems like cheap horsepower to me.

[MattR]

I'm a huge fan of the ST-115's also, but I want someone to try the SPT's to see what they are like...So you're the guinea pig...

[khail19]

Seems that way...

I wonder why human nature makes us want to try something new when we are perfectly happy with what we have. The ST115s are the best tire I have run so far, but for some reason I have a hard time buying another set without trying something different first.

[tysonK]

Yeah try the Kumhos so we can get a seccs review of them.

[MPREZIV]

Originally Posted by Dean

MXs are like the 215s, almost a competition tire, and wear very fast... Don't judge Kumho wear just on that experience. I bet they stuck real well in the dry, but that's about it....

that's the thing, I forgot to mention, but I wasn't really too impressed with traction either. Took forever to get them up to a decent temperature, and with a little spirited throttle input, they seemed to break traction too soon for my taste.

[khail19]

Well, 2 votes each for the SPT and ST115, and one person thinks I'm a pussy. I'm kind of leaning towards the Kumhos myself, mainly cause I can get 235/40 for less than 225/45 ST115s. I don't need them until the weather cooperates, so we'll see I guess.

[Dean]

It takes 3 reviews to get to the G-Sport to SPT comparison I based my statement on. It uses 712, and the ES100 as middle men since they have similar performance. You can just use the first and last if you are willing to compare to the 205 series Goodyear Eagle RS-A High Performance All-Season. It is to far out of whack for me... I'd rather go the extra test...

G-Sport < 712

712 <= ES100

ES100 <= SPT

I think you are up to 3 SPT votes, and at that price... Screw shipping the Falkens...

[tysonK]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

that's the thing, I forgot to mention, but I wasn't really too impressed with traction either. Took forever to get them up to a decent temperature, and with a little spirited throttle input, they seemed to break traction too soon for my taste.

I drove MX's for an auto-x season and for daily. The MX and SPT look to have some similar qualities. I liked my MX's a lot. I thoght they had decent grip out of the box. They were nice for touring on the highway, and they were nice on the water. They did get REALLY lou when they got down to needing to be replaced. They were much louder than worn RE070's. They were pretty cheap when I got them that day with the Khail discount.

edit: I was thinking of the ASX all season tire.

[khail19]

Originally Posted by Dean

I think you are up to 3 SPT votes, and at that price... Screw shipping the Falkens...

I think I'm going to go with the SPTs in 235/40/17, unless there's some crazy good deal that comes up before I buy them. $82 a piece, no shipping to worry about, and a wider, lighter tire for slightly less money. As long as they're fairly quiet I'll be happy with them.

[cody]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

I got those BFG's on my 17's right now. The severe camber hasn't caused too much excessive wear, which I'm pretty impressed with. Decent wet traction, dry is sacrificed a tad, but still not bad. They're not as sticky on dry as my Yoko ES100's, but I can't really complain much. It's a decent balance wet/dry, as the Yoko's are shit in the rain, IMO.

Maybe it's the fact that my ES100's are only in 215 width (mounted on 17X7.5 Rota's), but my opinion is the opposite. They don't seem like anything special in the dry, but they seem pretty good in the wet. Wierd.

The Toyo Proxes 4's I run as winter tires on the stock rims in 225 width actually seem to have equal dry handeling to that of the the Yoko's. I'm actually thinking of just selling the Rota's with the Yoko's and running my winter setup year round now. Does 1 cm of tire width really make that much of a difference?

Sorry for the hijack Khail.

[Dean]

Without intending to be insulting, most people don't actually push their tires, and equate performance more with ride quality than actual performance. They perceive traction and crisp steering response as bad characteristics with terms like hunting, twitchy, darty, etc.

I bet ES100s are at least half a 2 second faster on a 60 second autocross course, and will last twice as long on the track or autocross course than the Proxies. (I assume the are FS4 all Seasons)

[cody]

Well, I got a pretty good feel for the Es100's dry traction at the track, but I am a noob, so take it with a grain of salt. But I felt like I was fighting for traction. They just don't seem sticky at all. They were somewhat better when they warmed up, but still not great.

As for the Proxes 4's, this is how Toyo describes them:

The Proxes 4 is Toyo's new all-season ultra-high performance tire. It is designed primarily for plus-fitment applications on sport compact cars, sports sedans, and coupes. A wide range of tire sizes are available in V and W speed-ratings.

Link

They're obviously not snow tires, but they've worked just fine climing steep inclines with snow/ice on the ground several times this winter. Honestly I can't imagine a more versatile tire. And in addition to being quiet and handeling great in all situations, they have a 300 tread wear rating. People are saying they last for days. I know I'm labeled the local nutswinger and all, but I really don't think I need a seperate winter and summer setup anymore.

[Dean]

I know nothing of labels except what the moderators put under my name, and I'm not even sure what a nutswinger is. I've had nothing but positive experiences with you,.

Fighting for traction is common for noobs. It takes time to learn how to not ask to much of your tires in any given instant. I'm still working on it as I beleive are the rest of us here, some are just further along the path than others. Its all about being smooth in your inputs to the car, brake, steering, and throttle.

And actually, you will learn these skills faster, the suckier your tires are.

There is nothing wrong with good all Seasons on a daily driver in Reno climate. That is what is on my A4. For Truckee, or a hard core skier, you would be pushing the envelope.

There is no possible way I could have driven as quickly or safely on our way home from Nick's in Truckee on my All Seasoned A4 as I did in Debbie's completely unfamiliar Legacy outback on Blizzak Revos.

Driving the cars back to back on the same surface minutes apart, the difference was huge. Yes, I could negotiate the road on my M&S tires, but to have close to the same level of confidence in the cars ability to respond to my input, the speed had to be about half or so of what it was on the Revos.

[cody]

For sure. All Season tires will never = snow tires. If I lived up the hill, I'm sure I'd want to get some real winter tires.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

There is no possible way I could have driven as quickly or safely on our way home from Nick's in Truckee on my All Seasoned A4 as I did in Debbie's completely unfamiliar Legacy outback on Blizzak Revos.

Driving the cars back to back on the same surface minutes apart, the difference was huge. Yes, I could negotiate the road on my M&S tires, but to have close to the same level of confidence in the cars ability to respond to my input, the speed had to be about half or so of what it was on the Revos.

I had the same experience when I jumped out of Debbie's car and into mine. I have dunlop wintersport M2s and they didn't have anywhere near the same traction as the blizzaks. Having 300 ft-lbs at the wheels probably didn't help, but even under braking the difference in traction was noticable.

[MPREZIV]

Originally Posted by cody

Maybe it's the fact that my ES100's are only in 215 width (mounted on 17X7.5 Rota's), but my opinion is the opposite. They don't seem like anything special in the dry, but they seem pretty good in the wet. Wierd.

The Toyo Proxes 4's I run as winter tires on the stock rims in 225 width actually seem to have equal dry handeling to that of the the Yoko's. I'm actually thinking of just selling the Rota's with the Yoko's and running my winter setup year round now. Does 1 cm of tire width really make that much of a difference?

Sorry for the hijack Khail.

It's hard to say anyway, what with two different drivers, in two different cars, with different weight and power output and suspension mods. Way too many variables.

[cody]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

It's hard to say anyway, what with two different drivers, in two different cars, with different weight and power output and suspension mods. Way too many variables.

True, but I'm right.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeK

I had the same experience when I jumped out of Debbie's car and into mine. I have dunlop wintersport M2s and they didn't have anywhere near the same traction as the blizzaks. Having 300 ft-lbs at the wheels probably didn't help, but even under braking the difference in traction was noticable.

I don't have experience w/ the Revos, but I found my Wintersport M3's to be better tires than the Blizzack LM-22's I had before. 'Course not all things were equal, since the LM-22's were on the WRX in a 205/55/16 size, and the M3's are on the SVX in a 225/50/16 size. But the SVX is way more capable in the snow than the WRX was, even with the lower ground clearance.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't have experience w/ the Revos, but I found my Wintersport M3's to be better tires than the Blizzack LM-22's I had before. 'Course not all things were equal, since the LM-22's were on the WRX in a 205/55/16 size, and the M3's are on the SVX in a 225/50/16 size. But the SVX is way more capable in the snow than the WRX was, even with the lower ground clearance.

Pre or post JIC install * alignment? Stiff suspension is the worst in snow & ice unless you are at a rink. Nice soft stock suspension + All seasons > most any spring/coilover upgrade + snows.

Camber hurts big time in ice and snow as well.

[A1337STI]

wish i knew more about any of those tires. i have no experiance with any of them.
the yokos es 100s you mean the avs es 100's ? i have a set of those (just below street legal tread) I really loved them. good stiff side walls, i found them to have good wet traction (better then the RE070's ) . what i also liked about them is when you pushed them to their limits of traction, the grip didn't just fall off a cliff.
the Re070's feel more aggressive. however when i exceed their grip , it feels (to me) like their traction just falls off a damn cliff. if you manage to kick your rear end free with the RE070's it seemed like their traction was on/off. course i Only had those on for about 500 miles and then i switched to snow tires.
so no real seat time in my sti with them, so , wtf do i know.

Boot, Sperry posted (in a diff thread) he would prefer if some noob autoXers used less sticky tires. I'de actually like to use my AVS es 100's , but walmart refused to put them back on my last car (thread depth is just below legal) is there a place that won't really ... check / care ? i'de need them demounted and mounted on a diff set of rims is the issue.

do you happen to have an old set of something less sticky i could ride on ? if not i'll most likely be on the RE070's for the auto X. and only have maybe 500 miles on those tires... (probably not a great combo, noob autoXer and not in sync with the tires he's using) ...