Are RE070's legal in AutoX?

[Nick Koan]

As per the discussion from last night about RE070's being non-legal street tires, I went to look at the rules.

Since our "Street Tire" class uses the "Street Touring" rules for tires, here is what I found.

14.3 Tires
Tires must meet the eligibility requirements of the Stock category (excluding
13.3.F), with the following additional restrictions:

A. Tires may have widths up to and including 225.

B. Tires must have a minimum tread wear rating of 140.

C. Tire models must not appear on the following list, which may be altered at any time by the SEB upon notification of the membership.

Pirelli P Zero Corsa

and from the Stock rules

13.3 TIRES
Any tire which is OE on a car eligible for Stock Category may be used.
Non-OE tires must meet the following requirements to be eligible for
use in Stock category:

A. The tire must not appear on the following list, which may be altered at any time by the SEB upon notification of membership.

No tire models are currently listed.

B. No tire models will be approved for competition during the rest of the year after April 30 of each calendar year. Each eligible tire model must meet all requirements of Section 13.3 by April 30, and must continue to meet them thereafter. A tire model will normally be determined by the designation in the Tire Guide. However, any of the following changes or similar changes (as determined by the SEB) will also be considered to represent a new model for eligibility purposes, even if the designation does not change: change of tread pattern at either full or partial tread depth; characterization by the manufacturer or distributor of a tire as “new” after April 30. A tire model which was previously allowed by these rules continues to be legal until specifically disallowed. This follows years of precedence on eligibility for discontinued tire models. If a manufacturer reintroduces a tire model which was previously discontinued, that tire will be considered a new model. Therefore, it will have to meet the rules specified in SR Section including the April 30 introduction date.

C. The model of tire must be listed in a current or previous two years of the Tire Guide and Tread Design Guide, or otherwise be approved by the SEB. The tire model must have Department of Transportation approval.

D. Within each tire model, the sizes which are available must be equally available to all competitors. Tire model variations differing from standard specification, delivered only on a limited basis, or only to selected competitors, may not be used.

E. No racing tire or recap (on any casing) may be used.

F. Each tire model must be sold in at least four rim diameters, with a total of at least six sizes.

G. Tire must fit the allowable wheels and fender wells without modification.

H. Each tire must have non-zero measurable tread depth (i.e., points where it is possible to obtain positive measurement values) as described in Section 3.3.D. Tires may not have cord visible at any time during competition.

So, the rule that was brought up at the meet (that the tire must be sold in 4 diameters with 6 sizes) is actually not applicable to the ST rules. I think we are safe to run RE070's in a Street Tire class.

[sperry]

Matt and I figured this out last night, and I just PM'd Dean about it...

Here's the gist of the above:

Because RE070's are OE tires on STI's, the STI's can run them. However, because they're not made in enough sizes, they cannot be used on anything other than the STI, which means all you WRX folks on RE070s are boned, even if you run in classes where R-compounds are legal!

One side question was regarding legal street tires for our regional ST modifier. According to our suplimental regulations, we define a street tire as "any tire with a treadwear rating of 140 or greater". Now, we might want to change that to "any nationally legal tire with a treadwear rating of 140 or greater" just to be clear, because I think it's implied you have to run a DOT and SCCA approved tire to begin with.

The bottom line is, RE070's are probably illegal on anything except the STI. However, the good news is that I think the RT-615's are both faster and cheaper (aside from STI takeoffs that seem to turn up).

I got a meeting to run to, I'll explain a bit more when I get back if necessary.

[sperry]

Okay, either they cancelled the meeting w/o telling anyone, or there's just 2 of us that care to bother showing up.

Back to the tire fiasco...

Virtually every class inherrits the Stock tire rules. This means the rules regarding minimum availibility apply to just about every class (except for the ST classes which have their own rules for sizes, etc). RE070's do not meet the availibility rules, so they are only allowed on the cars they come on as OE, which I believe is *only* the STI. So, outside of anything related to street touring, unless you've got an STI, you can't use the RE070's. Period.

Now, our regional street tire rules are *not* based on the street touring rules. Our T* class modifier simply says if the tire on your car has a 140 or greater treadwear, you qualify for the Street Tire modifier. We really should clarify this so there isn't confusion, as I don't believe it's the intent of the regional rules to allow *any* tire stamped 140+, but any already legal tire stamped 140+.

The way I'd re-write our street tire rules is as follows:

"Cars with SCCA Stock legal tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or greater will be eligible for the Street Tire modifier of .968. Street Tires specifically excluded in the Street Touring rules are also excluded from the regional street tire modifier."

That way those one-off R-compound Advan's that Yokohama intentionally mis-labeled as 140's aren't considered legal for regional street tire competition.

[sperry]

One thing I just noticed: Street Modified inherrits all the tires from Stock, Street Touring, and Street Prepared, so RE070's would be legal in SM on any car.

It's starting to look like the RE070 issue isn't such a big issue, and simply limits people in Stock or Street Prepared. So if you're planning on running a WRX in DS or ESP, don't do it on RE070's.

[Dean]

I kind of like the wizdom of the rules requiring 4 rim sizes, and 6 total sizes as a minimum. As you said though, the ST rules specifically exclude that restriction though...

I guess we just leave it. but Scott is right, technically, only STIs can run that tire in any non ST/SM national class.

I guess it comes down to are RE070s faster than 615s? if so, then it is an unfair advantage. If not, then it doesn't matter.

[Joeyy]

Unfair Life is not fair suck it up.

[Nick Koan]

I just want to run them because they are cheaper (when take-off are available), and I already have a set I'm lobying to use the ST rules for our T* modifier, mainly because I already bought tires and am lazy.

In reality, though, I could always pick up a new set of tires to run on, but I don't exactly want to. Or, I could always just run in SM with the rest of ya'll.

But here is a question. The Legacy Spec B comes with RE050's in 225/45/18. Iff I could find a set in 225/45/17, would those be legal to run, since the tires comes as OE on a version of my car, but in a different size?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by nKoan

I just want to run them because they are cheaper (when take-off are available), and I already have a set I'm lobying to use the ST rules for our T* modifier, mainly because I already bought tires and am lazy.

In reality, though, I could always pick up a new set of tires to run on, but I don't exactly want to. Or, I could always just run in SM with the rest of ya'll.

But here is a question. The Legacy Spec B comes with RE050's in 225/45/18. Iff I could find a set in 225/45/17, would those be legal to run, since the tires comes as OE on a version of my car, but in a different size?

No, because they are not "THE" OE tire for your car... Your specific car has one, and only one specific OE tire, the one it rolled out of the port on. That is absolutely the only tire that is allowed that exception.

[M3n2c3]

Wait, I'm confused. For ST, it says that tires must meet the Stock requirements, excluding 13.3.f. That means that "F. Each tire model must be sold in at least four rim diameters, with a total of at least six sizes" doesn't apply.

So doesn't that mean that re070s are allowable? The point of them not being made in enough sizes is moot if one wants to run STS, for example.

Or is there some other rule I'm not aware of?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

Wait, I'm confused. For ST, it says that tires must meet the Stock requirements, excluding 13.3.f. That means that "F. Each tire model must be sold in at least four rim diameters, with a total of at least six sizes" doesn't apply.

So doesn't that mean that re070s are allowable? The point of them not being made in enough sizes is moot if one wants to run STS, for example.

Or is there some other rule I'm not aware of?

No, you got it. ST* and SM (because it inherrits the ST* rules) are exempt from the size range requirements. However, ST has it's own requirements for treadwear (140+) and maximum width (225 for STS, 245 for STX).

[Dean]

I am changing my mind... I'm claiming old age as privelage... Kevin pointed out the Stock rule again, and I now think I totally mis/over interpreted the stock OE rule.

Any tire which is OE on a Stock-class eligible vehicle is permitted.

I inferred that it had to be on the same car when it clearly does not say that. RE070s in stock STI size are probably legal on any car.

[Nick Koan]

Ah yes, I read that that way too.

Well, I see what kind of deal Scott is interested in then. Or I might just go ahead regardless, since I'm curious what those 'kook's are like.

[M3n2c3]

Phew.

Slightly OT, but I wonder why they decided to spell it "Hankook." It's Korean, so it ought to be romanized as "Han-gook." Weird.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

Phew.

Slightly OT, but I wonder why they decided to spell it "Hankook." It's Korean, so it ought to be romanized as "Han-gook." Weird.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but people call the Hankook's kook's... My guess is they didn't want to be known as 'gook's

It happens from time to time, where the proper romanization isn't used in corporations and even in public names. Sometimes to be PC, sometimes to help the westerners at least get closer to the proper phonetic pronounciation.

[sperry]

God I hate the english language...

"Any tire which is OE on a Stock-class eligible vehicle is permitted."

Does that mean:

"Any tire which is OE on any Stock-class eligible vehicle is permitted."

or

"Any tire which is OE on a Stock-class eligible vehicle is permitted on that vehicle."

I'd much rather just say the RE070's are legal, since it's not like they're a better tire than the RT615's or anything.