The JIC Drama

[sperry]

Okay, I'm gonna vent in an effort to gain a cathartic release. Some of you know most the story, but here's the whole thing, all in one place, for posterity's sake. This post is very long, and I'm not making Cliff Notes, 'cause the whole point is that this was a long, drawn out situation, and I want everyone to suffer my pain.

So back in the very beginning of December, I decided I'd bite the bullet and go for a set of JIC FLT-A2 coilovers. Based on the reviews on the web, and my personal preferences for the type of ride I was looking for, I boiled my choices down to the Tein Flex and JIC A2's. JIC's reputation for having a quieter strut w/ external dual adjustments (no pulling back the seat!) sold me on their product.

I emailed around, and made some phone calls, and no one seemed to want to sell these things to me. Then I got a reply from EasyStreet Motorsports, aka ESX (you know them as the guys with that retarded fast drag WRX that runs mid 9's :shock Ali Afshar the main man over there told me he had a few sets in stock, and he quoted me a price that beat everyone else! The catch was that he didn't know if the struts were the latest version, with the extended rear stroke struts that I had requested.

<background info time>
The JIC FLT-A2's for the WRX have gone through several revisions over the last year or so. A lot of the guys that were running the struts on their daily-driver cars were complaining about "bouncyness" on fairly smooth roads. JIC looked into it and decided that because of the softer setup that US customers like (as opposed to our Japanese counterparts that love retarded stiff struts on their uber smooth roads) the rear struts in the WRX setup wasn't long enough. They released a version of the struts with a longer stroke rear damper (KRA-16A's instead of KRA-16B's) and a helper spring to be used with the standard length main rear spring. Since that release, there was another revision that kept the same longer KRA-16A damper and included a longer rear main spring eliminating the need for a helper spring. This is the current revision, and the one that I intended to purchase.

much of this saga is documented here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&pagenumber=1
</background info>

So as I was saying, Ali didn't know if he had the latest version of the FLT-A2's, but that he purchased them from JIC around mid October. I called JIC and spoke to their tech guy Jerry. I asked him how I could identify the longer stroke rear damper of the latest revision FLT-A2's for the WRX. I figured the question was straightforward enough, but Jerry seemed confused. He kept telling me that if I wanted a longer rear strut, I'd have to order the FLT-A2-RS struts.

<background info>
FLT-A2-RS struts are *identicle* to the standard FLT-A2. The difference is that when you order them, you specify all the valving and spring rates. It's basically a "we don't make it till you order it" version for race shops that already know exactly what you want. There's about a $300 premium for this service.
</background info>

I told Jerry "I just want the standard valving and spring rates for the WRX FLT-A2's, I don't need anything custom. I've got a vendor that has some in stock, but he's not sure if they're the latest revision with the longer rear stroke." Jerry's still confused, and I realize he has no clue about the different revisions of the WRX rear struts. I try to explain it to him (yes, I'm explaining to the JIC tech about the history of JIC struts). I don't know that he ever really understood me, but he indicated that ESX must have the latest revision. Finally I asked him, "do the WRX struts come with helper springs stock?". He tells me "no, but you can get them if you want them". Of course I don't want them, but I figured that if the struts ESX has don't have the helper springs, they've got to be the new versions, since the older short struts without the helper springs were much older than mid October when Ali said he got his stock in.

I talked to Ali, and told him what I found out. Ali also called over to JIC and asked them the same questions I did. We both tried to get part numbers out the the tech guys, but they were unable to give us part numbers of lot numbers that would describe the revision of the struts in Ali's stock.

<background info>
All along, I've been keeping up with the thread I mentioned above. In that thread, Kevin, an ex-JIC tech was crucial in giving out the only good and clear info about these struts. Apparently he was the driving force behind JIC's campaign to elimiate the bouncyness issue. After he left JIC (for some shady reasons on JIC's part I'm led to believe), he continued to assist the Subaru community by giving out good advice on JIC's products. Even though he got screwed around by JIC-USA, he still raved about the quality of JIC's products, which really impressed me.

Once Kevin left JIC, he was replaced by the two guys there now, Ben and Jerry. (No, not the ice cream guys... but close.)
</background info>

So after Ali and I made repeated calls to JIC we were left with the impression that the struts ESX had in stock were the correct long-stroke rear versions and I decided to buy them. After all, Ali had been so helpful, I felt I should definately spend my money with him. (Customer service is a HUGE priority for me. I don't mind spending more money than the competition if I know I'm going to be taken care of.) Ali even offered to wave the shipping costs on the struts! He told me that if the struts turned out not to be the correct versions, that he'd take care of me on the deal... little did we know what that would end up entailing!

So one UPS Ground shipping delay later, I had my new JIC struts layed out on the living room floor! Man, these things were gorgeous!! Gold anodized aluminum, purple springs, gleaming stainless steel... mmmmmmm! And the build quality seemed impeccable! If these things performed half as good as they looked, I was stoked! Except, "gee those rear shocks don't really look any longer than the fronts... hmm... maybe the original version rear were actually shorter than the fronts to begin with... I better post some pictures on NASIOC." So I posted the pics and Kevin got back to me: "OH NOES!!!1! Those are the original struts!" Crap. No long stroke rears. I actually thought about saying "screw it", but then I figured, for what these things cost I better get exactly what I want, or I'd constantly be regretting it.

So I call up Ali and explain the situation. I also told Ali that my package was missing the spanning wrenches I'd need to tighten down the spring collars. He was very cool about it, and lived up to his word about taking care of me. He called up JIC and squared things away with them so that I could send them my rear struts, and they'd rebuild them with the proper parts, and ship them back to me, including a set of wrenches. Ali again offered to take care of all the shipping! So on December 18, I packed up the rears and shipped 'em off to JIC, with this letter that Ali dictated to me in the box explaining what needed to be done:

December 18, 2003

Dear Jerry,

As per my conversation with Ben on 12/18/03, please exchange these struts that have the KRA-16B dampers with the longer stroke KRA-16A dampers, complete with the necessary longer 6kg/mm springs and shafts, to match the latest GDAFLT-A2 rear strut design.

Please ship the complete struts, and 2 spanning wrenches to:

Scott Perry
1001 S. Meadows Pkwy #1621
Reno, NV 89521

Thanks,

Ali Afshar
Easystreet Motorsports

Sounds pretty straightforward, right? Problem on its way to being solved, yes? Not a chance.

UPS estimated the package should arrive at JIC early the next week, but with the holidays and all, I didn't really expect JIC to get to work on the rebuild until after Christmas. I go to the Bay Area for that week, and proceed to ignore the situation for a few days. Back in Reno, I give JIC a call on Monday the 29th, and no one answers. I try to call again on the 30th, and get through to Jerry. I tell him my situation, asking when I should expect the rears to get back to me. He tells me that they're "working on them today" and that they'll "finish up tomorrow, and get shipped out on Monday". I tought that was cutting things a bit close for the car show I was going to be in on Jan 10th, but I figured that New Years was a pretty good excuse for not getting them out sooner. As per Jerry's request I sent him an email to verify my shipping address. In the email I specified that I needed the struts no later than Wed, Jan 7, so I'd have time to install them before the weekend, so if they went out Monday, they'd have to go 2-day shipping.

Monday comes and no one will answer the phone at JIC, or respond to my emails. Tuesday, and I call 3 times to no avail. Finally Wednesday, and I get though to Ben, praying he'll just tell me that the package was sent on Monday as planned, and that I should receive it today. Instead I get, "Oh, we're done with the struts, they're just sitting around here." What... the... FUCK?

<background info>
Throughout the end of December / beginning of Janurary, ESX was in the process of moving to a new, bad-ass shop in N. Hollywood. This means it's not always easy to get in touch with then due to the changing phone numbers and variable access to email. Ali was cool to give me his cell number so I could reach him if I really needed to.
</background info>

I ask Ben why they're just sitting on my struts that I needed TODAY. Ben tells me that he can't ship without confirmation from ESX. Now, neith I nor Ali knew they ESX was supposed to call JIC and confirm the shipping. Perhaps JIC called ESX to ask, but the phone lines were down, who knows. Ben tells me I should get in touch with ESX to resolve this issued. (Gimme a break, isn't that YOUR job? Why should I have to call anyone to get confirmation for you!?) So I call Ali, and Ali jumps on it and calls JIC, and has them overnight my rear struts, at his cost! Ali calls me back and tells me to call JIC just to make absolutley sure things are as they should be. I call Ben back and ask him, "these are the longer rear struts for the WRX?" - "yes", "they're coming overnight shipping, leaving today, right?" - "yes", "these are complete struts, all I have to do is install them on the car, RIGHT?" - "yes", "you included a set of spanning wrenches in the package as per the instructions?" - "wrenches? those cost money!" . So I have to get him to call back Ali about the charge for the wrenches, but other than that, everything's good to go.

So finally today (Jan 8, T-minus 2 days till the show), at lunch, with bated breath I picked up the rears from the office at my apartment complex, and open them in my living room. You'll never guess what I found in there. My rear struts, STILL AS I PACKED THEM, SCOTCH TAPE, BUBBLE WRAP AND ALL... a set of KRA-16A shocks, and a bag with 2 spanning wrenches. SO MUCH FOR FUCKING INSTALLING THE SHOCKS FOR ME. Oh and where's the longer springs? I can't very well use the long struts without longer springs, CAN I? Holy shit guys, why would I spend all the money to ship you my rear struts if I just wanted a second set of shocks!!? Left hand, meet the right hand, why don't you!? Were my instructions confusing? What was all that talk about "they're working on it today, and will finish them up tomorrow"? By "working on 'em" you mean sitting around and looking at my box fo struts before finally grabbing some shocks of the stock shelf and tossing 'em in there? The goddamn shocks they game me weren't even new! They were rebuilds, you could tell by the marks on the threads where they install into the pillowball! One of them was even BENT!

I resisted the urge to call JIC and explode at them on the phone. Instead I call Ali, to let him know. I'm pretty much sure these things aren't getting on the car for the show. Ali was incredulous, like me he couldn't believe JIC's incompetance... not to mention what this was costing him. Ali told me he'd talk to JIC and get back to me.

15 minutes later, Ali rang my cell and asked what the absolute latest time was that I could get these and still make the show. I figured, I could stay up late on Friday night and install 'em only hours before the 6:30am Saturday show, (God forbid I break anything during the install). Ali tells me he's having JIC overnight me a complete, brand new set of struts to me! Holy shit. Never, ever, EVER has a company stepped up to the plate and gone yard like that for me. I thought all the hard work he'd done for me already was way beyond "excellent customer service", this was unbelieveable! All I had to do was pack up the new shocks and wrenches and send them back to JIC, and pack up the struts and send them back to ESX. So I spent a long lunch packing and shipping.

Now here I am waiting one more day to see if JIC can come through and figure out which struts really go on a WRX, and have them at my house tomorrow. I've called and once again explicitly made sure JIC and I are on the same page regarding where, when and what they're sending me, not that it helped last time. Third time's the charm, right?

The biggest thing to come out of this whole deal is my respect for Ali Afshar and EasyStreet Motorsports. Never did he lose his cool, never did he give up, or wash his hands of the situation. He *always* promptly responded to my calls, everytime dropping what ever it was he was working on and calling JIC immediately to help resolve these problems. He always called me back when he said he would. Now, I believe that's how everyone should run their business, but it's rare indeed to actually find someone that does it that way.

On top of all this, Ali's consistantly covered shipping, arranged for new parts at his expense, and most astounding of all, ordered a SECOND complete set to be overnighted to me! I honestly can't express how impressed I am by these sacrafices all in the name of good customer service. I won't even get into how much this must have cost Ali... the shipping alone must have ate up any of Ali's profit on this deal... it makes me sick to my stomach that JIC would let their vendor hang out to dry like that, especially when it was their lack of knowledge of their own products that got us into this whole mess.

Now, I know we have some terrific local vendors that would go to these lengths for us (S-Squared and SubyDude come to mind), however I'd like to remind you that Ali at ESX went to these lengths for me, a complete stranger. I had never met him, or spoke to him, or spent any money with his shop before this incident. This is the kinda service you get from a close friend, or from a vendor that you've spent thousands of dollars with, not just some shop you sent an email to.

I'm planning a road trip down to LA for ESX's grand opening of their new shop. I need to personally thank Ali for all his hard work, and let him check out the ride on the extended stroke rear struts. I'm also more interested in seeing first hand the kind of work he's done and see what he thinks about where I can go in the future with my car.

Holy crap, this is now offically the longest post I've ever written. If you made it this far, you get a cookie.

[MattR]

OMG! I'll have to set aside some time to finish reading that

[ArthurS]

I only got about a 1/4 done.....the a dustball on my floor caught my attention....

Ill read it later tonight...

[tysonK]

I read it.

good documentation of real a life situation that people go through everyday(well almost) by ordering stuff online or over the phone.

If everything can go wrong, then what is stopping it? nothing!

[AtomicLabMonkey]

What a fucking clown show... those "techs" at JIC sound like mouth-breathing wastes of space. At least Ali sounds like a really cool guy, that's the best customer service I've ever heard of. I hope the nimrods get it right this time and you guys have time to throw those things on the car. :shock:


On the plus side, I get a cookie.

[JC]

I told you not buy JICs. Oh wait, I told you to buy JICs. Hopefully they are good at least.

JC

[ZER026D]

I could only get a 1/4 the way through that. What I get out of the whole ordeal is that any company that has to make changes to there product so many times means they have problems. I meen how would you feel if you got a product that is being changed as much as a PC you will never have a product you can call the best.

One last thing you should have got TEIN. I have had no problems they have not made new versions they are teflon coated so they dont rust. I can not say one bad thing about them. The only thing is I wish I had the EDFC cause it is a PITA ass to adjust the dampening in the rear.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ZER026D

I could only get a 1/4 the way through that. What I get out of the whole ordeal is that any company that has to make changes to there product so many times means they have problems. I meen how would you feel if you got a product that is being changed as much as a PC you will never have a product you can call the best.

One last thing you should have got TEIN. I have had no problems they have not made new versions they are teflon coated so they dont rust. I can not say one bad thing about them. The only thing is I wish I had the EDFC cause it is a PITA ass to adjust the dampening in the rear.

I agree the Tien's are dope coils, but I found out they're not inverted struts! The inverted struts decrease unsprung weight and allow the shocks to work more quickly. And although the JIC's are only "single adjustable", i.e. there's only one knob, that knob adjusts both bound and rebound, whereas other struts allow you to adjust only the rebound valving. Plus the JIC's adjustment knobs are on the bottom .

My beef isn't with the struts themselves, it's with JIC's US importer/distributor, Ziel Motorsports. More specifically, it seems like engineers at JIC-USA/Ziel are even pretty good, it's just the customer service side of things that blows!

The fact that JIC was willing to make revisions to their product for the US market, and then to keep making revisions after the product was released is a very good thing. It shows they care about making a good product here in the US, unlike some of the other Japanese companies that just release parts over here that are exactly the same as the Japanese part, simply looking to make more money. Tien's the same way as JIC, they added the teflon coating to address the rusting issues that people on the east coast were having due to road salt... that's good business!

[AtomicLabMonkey]

So lets see some pics of those coil-overs...

[tysonK]

flash in wheel well

[tysonK]

the thing

[DC5Denver]

I feel your pain.
I just posted my JIC USA horror story here as well.

http://www.seccs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=985

[tysonK]

wow DC5 you and Scott could bad mouth JIC for hours.

[sperry]

To follow up on the story (for posterity's sake). I recieved the overnighted coilovers, and got them on the car in time for NORPAC, after an all-nighter install fest.

The 'tards at Firestone that did my last alignment were kind enough to strip one of my front camber bolts. I had to use the spare bolts from the rear to hold the fronts on temporarily. I ordered some new camber bolts that finally arrived today... 'course they only sent me one, even tho I ordered two . So, now I get to wait another week for SubaruParts.com to get their act together and send me a bolt.

In the meantime, I'll install one old one, and one new one, and I should be cool. Then I gotta get a decent alignment.

Now for the worst news: After all the work to get the latest version JICs to prevent bounce, my car has a TON OF BOUNCE. In fact it's damn near unbearable on long trips. I've got a ton of things to try... chances are, I just haven't gotten the setup sorted out yet, as I still need to mess w/ the pre-load, the ride height, the damping, and the alignment. I've been told these extended stroke struts will work w/ ZERO bounce, so it's just a matter of toying with them till they're right.

On the other hand, even setup poorly, I haven't found the limit of the car's handling yet. In fact, I think I'll never find the limit on the street, since I flat out don't drive that fast on public streets. I'm dying to hit up the AutoX course to really toss the car around on these things. But chances are, I won't really know what the car can do until I get it out on a race track... Pahrump, here I come!!

So even with the bounce issue, these things are AMAZING!

[tysonK]

I can attest he F'n railed his car around the onramp to north 395, and thing had no drama what-so-evAr!

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

I'm dying to hit up the AutoX course to really toss the car around on these things. But chances are, I won't really know what the car can do until I get it out on a race track... Pahrump, here I come!!

I hear that... I'm gonna go to one of our dookie SFR 3-run events here in a couple weeks cause it's the only game in town and I need an auto-x in a bad way. Oh, and I want a ride when you take that thing on track.

[ZER026D]

[MattR]

Sexy Evo!

[ZER026D]

yes it is I am looking at maybe getting one but I think I am going to get the MR version

[tysonK]

WHAT?!...Evan you told me you'd buy an STi way before an EVO...what changed your mind?

the price?

[ZER026D]

No in fact the EVO MR will cost more then the STI if it ever comes here. I am still looking at getting a black STI and a black EVO MR in about a year.

[tysonK]

they are both awesome cars, as long as I get a ride I dont care.

w3rd to y0r Muth4


cool that evo is sporting the same tires as me.