Well everything is almost done...soon this beast will be in my car

[Duckie]

As far as the 600 horse, it is completly reasonable because I am not talking about to the wheels . I am talking at the crank, after my engine rebuild it will be well beyond 600 and I bet I might even be putting out 450 crank with just my current build. As far as the parts cost of doing a 6mt with 180...I have the money to get the 6mt by summer so we will see...the more and more I think about it I am going to go with the 6mt.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sperry

...but yes, my 5MT was installed in another customer's car and is now driving around Sacramento.

Weak!

[cody]

Originally Posted by Duckie

As far as the 600 horse, it is completly reasonable because I am not talking about to the wheels . I am talking at the crank, after my engine rebuild it will be well beyond 600 and I bet I might even be putting out 450 crank with just my current build. As far as the parts cost of doing a 6mt with 180...I have the money to get the 6mt by summer so we will see...the more and more I think about it I am going to go with the 6mt.

I'd give AndrewTech a call if I were you. I bet they can put together somthing that's stronger and less expensive than an STi tranny.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Duckie

As far as the 600 horse, it is completly reasonable because I am not talking about to the wheels . I am talking at the crank, after my engine rebuild it will be well beyond 600 and I bet I might even be putting out 450 crank with just my current build. As far as the parts cost of doing a 6mt with 180...I have the money to get the 6mt by summer so we will see...the more and more I think about it I am going to go with the 6mt.

Um, 600 hp at the crank is ESX drag car territory! Hell, that's more power than some of the Speed GT cars make. Even with a complete rebuild, all forged everything, trick heads, trick cams, standalone EM, 15psi on the blower, alky injection, aftercooler, and nitrous, I bet that motor doesn't make 600 crank hp.

You will probably be making around 350 crank on your current build, which is around 250 to 275 at the wheels, and that assumes you've got a tight low mileage motor.

I think you're inflating the numbers in your head a little. 250 at the wheels in an AWD car is actually *insanely* fast compared to 95% of the cars on the road. Don't be dissapointed when your current build comes back at under 300awhp.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

Um, 600 hp at the crank is ESX drag car territory! Hell, that's more power than some of the Speed GT cars make. Even with a complete rebuild, all forged everything, trick heads, trick cams, standalone EM, 15psi on the blower, alky injection, aftercooler, and nitrous, I bet that motor doesn't make 600 crank hp.

I don't think so Scott, there are at least a couple 500whp+ STis, and a 600whp one with stock heads, in the ATL area. ESX drag car is probably 800 or 900hp at the crank. That blower might not push enough air, but I don't think you'd need anywhere near all that motor work with the right S/C.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by JC

I don't think so Scott, there are at least a couple 500whp+ STis, and a 600whp one with stock heads, in the ATL area. ESX drag car is probably 800 or 900hp at the crank. That blower might not push enough air, but I don't think you'd anywhere near all that motor work with the right S/C.

Yeah. And 250whp is not *insane* fast either, unless its extremely light.

And duckie, I doubt you'll get ~450 initially out of this thing either. It's supercharged? Turbo charged? Look for ~320. ~280 whp.

[sperry]

I think you guys are drastically over estimating what 4 or 5 psi on a roots blower is going to add to a 14 year old motor. My SVX put a whopping 133awhp down bone stock. 5 psi is not going to add 200 hp, especially considering the car is going to be running a non-custom tune.

And 250awhp is very fast compared to virtually everything else on the road. Most cars out there are what, about 90 to 120 hp to the wheels? 250 at the wheels is already far more power than is really safe in a car that's already under braked at the factor 130awhp.

[Duckie]

I would put down a bet of over 200 bucks that I brake 400 crank horse with my initial setup with no upgraded tranny and even with my super restrictive stock exaust. I think you guys are underestimating this engine. I think it has an insane amount of potential and I plan on pushing the envelope with it and taking it as far as I can. In all honesty I will probably be putting more than 50k into this before i am done and I have no problem with that. The way I see it is I have a place to live already taken care of, education taken care of...really other than my tv, food, and car insurance what else should I be spending my money on. The traditional things you save up money for I already have taken care of...mainly because of luck and good fortune. So, I see nothing wrong with dumping money into making the SVX into what it should have been in the first place =D

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by sperry

I think you guys are drastically over estimating what 4 or 5 psi on a roots blower is going to add to a 14 year old motor. My SVX put a whopping 133awhp down bone stock. 5 psi is not going to add 200 hp, especially considering the car is going to be running a non-custom tune.

And 250awhp is very fast compared to virtually everything else on the road. Most cars out there are what, about 90 to 120 hp to the wheels? 250 at the wheels is already far more power than is really safe in a car that's already under braked at the factor 130awhp.

Wait, its only 5psi? Hmm... stock hp is what? I predict an 80hp increase... maybe.

250awhp = SLOW!

[Duckie]

I will be running 6+ psi . And for all you people who don't have any faith in my setup, lets take a nice reasonable bet =D. For the first 10 people who want to bet me 20 bucks I dont brake 375 horse I will more than gladly take that bet . Keep in mind this would be a a jump of 145 horse from the stock engine and thats IF my engine is running absolutely perfect . Who would like to take the bet? I will make the list here in the thread, and come on...its only 20 bucks ^_^(200 for me). So make me eat my words.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Duckie

I would put down a bet of over 200 bucks that I brake 400 crank horse with my initial setup with no upgraded tranny and even with my super restrictive stock exaust. I think you guys are underestimating this engine. I think it has an insane amount of potential and I plan on pushing the envelope with it and taking it as far as I can. In all honesty I will probably be putting more than 50k into this before i am done and I have no problem with that. The way I see it is I have a place to live already taken care of, education taken care of...really other than my tv, food, and car insurance what else should I be spending my money on. The traditional things you save up money for I already have taken care of...mainly because of luck and good fortune. So, I see nothing wrong with dumping money into making the SVX into what it should have been in the first place =D

How will you know what the crank hp is? You gonna engine dyno it? Assuming a 28% drivetrain loss (the running number tossed around for imprezas), 400 crank is 288 awhp. If your car breaks 280 awhp with the EcuTune stage 3, I'll be impressed. I think 230 to 250 is a far more realistic goal, and will make the car feel faster than you think.

Remember, you're making about 130 to 140 awhp right now at sea level. That's more like 100 awhp up here in Reno. Adding 80 to 100 hp is nearly doubling the power of that motor. That's very impressive... just don't be dissapointed when you're not smoking STIs. It's going to take a lot more work to get to that point, if even due solely to the weight of the SVX... remember it weights like 500 lbs more than an STI.

As far as the EG33's potential, I totally agree, there is a *ton* of potential in that block. But keep in mind the extensive work that needs to be done to get there. There are 600 hp sand rails running that motor, but they're running nitromethane, twin turbos, low compression pistons, cams, custom intakes and exhausts, standalone engine managment, and so on. Sure you might be able to get there if you're willing to spend the time and money, but don't expect that EcuTune stage 3 to get you even most of the way there.

And Ryan, how about you take the average car on the road today, say a '00 Camry 4-banger, and I'll take any 250 awhp car of your choice, and I'll show you how "slow" 250 awhp is. Just because you're around fast cars a lot, doesn't make slightly less fast cars "slow".

[Duckie]

Does that mean I can sign you up for the bet scott? After I install the SC setup I will immediatly taking it to the closest dyno. I will calculate using the average drivetrain loss over at the SVX network. I will be posting all the data after the dyno results are in my hands. I wouldnt mind eating my words and losing 20 bucks...the fact of the matter is I have an incredibly large amount of faith in the car being able to brake 400 HP@ the crank from the setup. As fasr as the potential of the motor...yeah no question that its here.

Thing about this is I am WILLING to spend the money to get my project to where I want it. I am already trying to source out the work for a complete engine rebuild so I am in no way going to stop at the stage 3 kit. It is merely a stepping stone and nothing more. The only thing I am not willing to do is cross the line from daily driveable.

I personally do not believe I need stand alone engine management...but if I eventually go that route I have no qualms about it. The ECU inside the SVX is incredibly advanced and it can be re-written with software to do a variety of things. I am going to have a custom tune done by andrew of ECUtune once my SVX gets closer and closer to the 600 crank goal.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Duckie

I will be running 6+ psi . And for all you people who don't have any faith in my setup, lets take a nice reasonable bet =D. For the first 10 people who want to bet me 20 bucks I dont brake 375 horse I will more than gladly take that bet . Keep in mind this would be a a jump of 145 horse from the stock engine and thats IF my engine is running absolutely perfect . Who would like to take the bet? I will make the list here in the thread, and come on...its only 20 bucks ^_^(200 for me). So make me eat my words.

So now the bet is 375 instead of 400? You're at least getting more realistic.

Let's do some math:

stock crank hp: 230
stock dyno'd wheel hp: 133 (from my car)
that's a loss of 42% assuming my motor is somehow still putting out the stock rated crank power (I'm sure it's not, but neither is yours more than likely).

So, assuming 42% loss, 375 crank hp is 217.6 awhp. If you want to go with those numbers, then I won't take your bet. In fact, I think 220 awhp is probably very close to what you're going to see when you dyno that car.

I just don't want to see you disapointed when the car doesn't throw down 330 awhp on the dyno. 220 awhp is a gain of 87 hp at the wheels! I spent well over $10,000 getting my 198 awhp WRX to 290 awhp. Keep your expectations realistic, or you're going to end up with a sick-ass SVX that you hate because you're going to feel like it's not living up to the beast you're making up in your head.

[Duckie]

I changed it to 375 due to sp00ln's comment about the extra 80 horse . I don't have this idea of this insane SVX in my head that is going to mash on STis for breakfast. I think that through persistance and money I will achieve my goal and I don't think its going to happen over night. I know this is going to be a long and arduous journy but I have already started taking the first steps in my long long journey.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

I think you guys are drastically over estimating what 4 or 5 psi on a roots blower is going to add to a 14 year old motor. My SVX put a whopping 133awhp down bone stock. 5 psi is not going to add 200 hp, especially considering the car is going to be running a non-custom tune.

Originally Posted by JC

That blower might not push enough air, but I don't think you'd need anywhere near all that motor work with the right S/C.

Did you read my post? I'd think a 60-80hp gain with the current setup if it's just a bolt-on. What I was disagreeing with was that 600hp at the crank is by no means crazy and shouldn't require all that exotic engine work.

Originally Posted by sperry

And 250awhp is very fast compared to virtually everything else on the road. Most cars out there are what, about 90 to 120 hp to the wheels? 250 at the wheels is already far more power than is really safe in a car that's already under braked at the factor 130awhp.

I don't think a 250awhp stock tranny SVX will be that fast to be honest with you. A WRX with that much power is probably ok, an RS would be pretty fast, but an SVX is heavy and stock auto FTL.

Originally Posted by Duckie

In all honesty I will probably be putting more than 50k into this before i am done and I have no problem with that. The way I see it is I have a place to live already taken care of, education taken care of...really other than my tv, food, and car insurance what else should I be spending my money on. The traditional things you save up money for I already have taken care of...mainly because of luck and good fortune. So, I see nothing wrong with dumping money into making the SVX into what it should have been in the first place =D

You sound like me, except I have no money right now.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

I don't think a 250awhp stock tranny SVX will be that fast to be honest with you. A WRX with that much power is probably ok, an RS would be pretty fast, but an SVX is heavy and stock auto FTL.

Wheel horsepower is wheel horsepower- transmission loss is already factored out, so now the weight is the only thing holding the SVX back. Plus it would probably be faster at high speeds due to lower drag.

[Duckie]

The svx is not THAT much heavier than an STI .

Anywho, I have decided on a few things. Number one, I am for sure going to be going with a 6mt with a 180 rear. This swap will be happening mid summer most likely. One of the overlooked benefiets of switching to this tranny is going to be the weight savings =D. Other things that will be done at the same time as the tranny switch: Removal of ABS(I will be putting some non abs brakes out of a FWD svx in it) and removal of airbags. Now before you go dogging on me for removing the airbags, consider this...I am a twig and more likely than not the force of these airbags(unlike modern airbags) would own the living crap out of me.

In an unrelated note this is HOT http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/atta...1&d=1141795868 black chrome ftw. My car is eventually going to be painted grey so I think black chrome wheels would look great. Which reminds me scott, what offest will fit on a SVX if I want to put 18's on with no rubbing?

One last thing to consider, this is not a drag car, this is not an auto-Xer, instead it is being built with grand touring and luxury in mind.

[sybir]

Mustang Cobra knockoff wheels on a Subie FTL........just my opinion, though. The offset on those wheels will be horribly wrong.

BTW, a full 6MT/R180 swap isn't going to save much if any weight over the stock auto, and why would you decrease the performance of your braking system by removing ABS? If it's not a track car, you're not going to be threshold braking, and ABS is far superior on a street car. I have yet to see a braking test where even a pro driver can outperform aBS on anything other than gravel or snow.

What brakes and suspension are you planning for this thing? If that's not part of your plan on a 3800 pound car with 400 hp, you need to seriously reconsider your priorities, and then you need to tackle the fact that STi Brembos may or may not bolt up.

Plus, why are you trying to lighten the car by stripping interior stuff, putting in racing shells, all that, if you want a GT/Luxury car? You're going to end up with something not much lighter, a lot louder, stiffer, etc.

I applaud you for trying, but if you're going whole-hog, you need to plan out the full suite of mods first, and be thinking about how you're going to control the power before you get it

[Duckie]

Lol, those are real cobra wheels #1. And #2 im not putting them on my car, I just REALLY like the black chrome they were dipped in.

I am removing the ABS for personal preference. I drive in the snow A LOT and abs is not fun...I might as well not have brakes. Anyway, I like the overall feel of no ABS better in my experiences. The only exception being in rain, but I am a good driver and I am not going to put myself in any situation where it would make or brake me.

I already know the STI brakes won't bolt on, I don't need them to. I already have my brakes taking care of for a long time until I eventually upgrade further. I already have MUCH better than stock brakes on my car and they are more than acceptable for the added HP the SC will provide. The stock suspension is again fine for now but I already have plans for custom springs and some good struts.

The stripping of the interior is a work in progress, there will be permanantly no back seats, there will temp. comfortable yet lightweight racing shells in place of the stock seats, eventually there will be some luxuray recliners from recarro. There will temp. be no carpet, eventually this will be changed but it is NOT on my priority list. Yes the car will be noiser for probably about the next 2 years until I get through with R&D with the interior. I do not mind driving a work in progress and accept the fact that what I am doing is a HUGE undertaking and that there will be many unexpected set backs, money sinks, and problems. The thing is, in the end I don't care. The subaru SVX is one of the best looking cars hands down IMO and I really only care about taking it to new heights. It is either this, or a 944 turbo S...they are the only two dream cars I can afford unless someone wants to loan me some money for a Zonda C12S .

So in summary the car will obviously not be luxurious WHILE I work on it, rather I work to an end goal of luxury in mind.

[sybir]

More power to you, man. Good luck.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Duckie

I already know the STI brakes won't bolt on, I don't need them to. I already have my brakes taking care of for a long time until I eventually upgrade further. I already have MUCH better than stock brakes on my car and they are more than acceptable for the added HP the SC will provide.

What have you done to your brakes? I'm running upgraded rotors, pads, and fluid on my SVX, and it's *still* not adequate for the stock power and weight of that car.

[cody]

Bah, you're just spoiled with your fancy BBK.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Bah, you're just spoiled with your fancy BBK.

Actually, one panic stop from 60 mph will fade the brakes to the point where there's no longer enough friction to trigger the ABS. On a car that easily goes 100 mph on the freeway if you're not watching the speedo, that's not adequate.

[sybir]

Werd. Scott knows what he's talking about with brakes. I have a little inkling, too, as I've gone through 6 separate CALIPER setups on my slow-ass, 100whp wagon (that weighs less than your car by 500 pounds), not to mention brake pad compounds, before finding something I could always be confident in.

That's what I'm saying. If you think stock calipers will be ok if you just upgrade rotors, pads, and lines, you're going to be in for a nasty surprise the second time you try to pull down from speed, if not the first. We're not trying to be dicks. What I'm saying is that if you're talkign about putting all this money into the car, don't skimp on the stuff that will allow you to control it. It would be a shame for you to run your non-ABS'd 400hp project straight off the road because you couldn't get slowed down for a corner after a straight. Believe me, I've grown up running back roads; suspension and brakes are far, far more important than power.

[cody]

Damn, that does sound inadequate. Smaller calipers and discs than stock WRX I take it?