2005 PAX factors

[Kevin M]

Edit: Nevermind, the damn cut and paste from the site doesn't work. I might as well type it out now.

Or maybe just link it instead.

[Kevin M]

Our classes so far:

A Stock: .828	A Stock Street Tire: .801504
B Stock: .821	B Stock Street Tire: .794728
C Stock: .810   C Stock Street Tire: .784080
D Stock: .796	D Stock Street Tire: .770528
E Stock: .806   E stock Street Tire: .780208
G Stock: .782	G Stock Street tire: .756976
H Stock: .777	H Stock Street Tire: .752136
 
ASP: .850	ASP Street Tire: .822800
BSP: .839	BSP Street Tire: .812512
CSP: .838       CSP Street Tire: .811184
ESP: .826	ESP Street Tire: .799568
DSP: .822	DSP Street Tire: .795696
FSP: .811	FSP Street Tire: .785048
 
STS: .799
STS2: .803
STX: .802
STU: .818
SM: .842	 SM Street Tire: .815056
SM2: .852         SM2 Street Tire: .824736
SU: .853	  SU Street Tire: .825704

[Dean]

It's good to know I have that huge 0.002432 disadvantage over Mike K.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

It's good to know I have that huge 0.002432 disadvantage over Mike K.

I am still amazed that modifying a stock STi and going from tas to tesp will result in a *better* pax. I would have thought that little anomaly would have been corrected over the off season.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MikeK

I am still amazed that modifying a stock STi and going from tas to tesp will result in a *better* pax. I would have thought that little anomaly would have been corrected over the off season.

SCCA National cares not about PAX... PAX lives in the mind of one man in the Chicago area. It is crap, but nothing better exists.

If I had many spare hours, I would do the math and statistics to come up with something, but alas, nobody has offered to pay me to do so...

[Kevin M]

Yeah, I like how D Stock is lower than E and F Stock.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by Dean

PAX lives in the mind of one man in the Chicago area.

Yes, and interestingly, Rick Ruth is a family friend of the Debordes. (Not that that will help any of US!)

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by MikeK

I am still amazed that modifying a stock STi and going from tas to tesp will result in a *better* pax. I would have thought that little anomaly would have been corrected over the off season.

Dean explained it pretty simply atually. Most of the SP allowances don't help an STi that much. Other than the power gains from intake and exhaust, coilovers, and a little gain in wheel size... well, you can see for yourself that even Matt and Eric's SM STis aren't much faster than a stock car. It's the A Stock classification that's wrong, ESP is pretty much right IMO.

[Nick Koan]

mmmmm .7705

Now I'll just have to find some way to make that useful

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Dean explained it pretty simply atually. Most of the SP allowances don't help an STi that much. Other than the power gains from intake and exhaust, coilovers, and a little gain in wheel size... well, you can see for yourself that even Matt and Eric's SM STis aren't much faster than a stock car. It's the A Stock classification that's wrong, ESP is pretty much right IMO.

I would think that depends on the track. On higher speed tracks I am sure they will 0wnz0rz me, the power and coilovers will make a big difference.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by nKoan

mmmmm .7705

Now I'll just have to find some way to make that useful

Drive faster!

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by nKoan

mmmmm .7705

Now I'll just have to find some way to make that useful

Azenis Sports. The 225/45 would fit on your stockers.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Drive faster!

I tried that. It only makes me hit cones faster.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by nKoan

I tried that. It only makes me hit cones faster.

Drive slower!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by nKoan

mmmmm .7705

Now I'll just have to find some way to make that useful

Let me drive it. Oh, and what kevin said...

[Kevin M]

Hey Dean, what's keeping you from running DSP for the Challenges? You gain like .005 in PAX.

Edit: Duh, it's ESP. Still, .002456...

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Hey Dean, what's keeping you from running DSP for the Challenges? You gain like .005 in PAX.

Edit: Duh, it's ESP. Still, .002456...

I'm sure Tyson wouldn't mind

[dknv]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

It's the A Stock classification that's wrong, ESP is pretty much right IMO.

Checking for understanding, you think classifying the STi in AS is wrong?

[Kevin M]

Yes. I personally think it's a B Stock car. Weren't there a few STis at nationals that got clobbered pretty good in A Stock?

[Dean]

As I previously mentioned, classic SP mods are relatively worthless on an STI. Brakes, intake, exhaust, wheels, LSD and even suspension add minimally at best.

Lets look at other ESP cars...

Camaro, Firebird, Mustang... Mostly F Stock... These cars respond to all of these mods exceptionally well...

So the long and the short is both are fair classifications. It is PAX that is broken.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I personally think it's a B Stock car.

You would see it compete with the RX-8, MR2 Turbos, 350Z's and Mazdaspeed Miatas? They would so dominate the class.

It's tough, because I think ESP may be the best place for it to play. But then that's where the wrx has to go too, under SP rules.

[Kevin M]

Good point Debbie. I guess there just isn't a good class for the STi.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

You had to know this was coming...

I think even a stock STi is far more capable than most SP-prepped ponycars.. I don't think it should be classed in ESP. I don't have a dog in this fight anymore personally, I've just never understood why they put it there competing against such a bunch of crappy cars.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

You had to know this was coming...

I think even a stock STi is far more capable than most SP-prepped ponycars.. I don't think it should be classed in ESP. I don't have a dog in this fight anymore personally, I've just never understood why they put it there competing against such a bunch of crappy cars.

I agree. The STi is too much for ESP. Granted it's not overly competative, but just looking at the STi vs. WRX aspect, you can tell it's too fast.

IMO the "flavor" of ESP is "pony car". And while I will agree that the STi is a next generation muscle car, it's not a big, loud, heavy, RWD car that the class was intended for.

I'm not really sure where the STi belongs. It's too fast for BS, and not quite an AS car. It gets owned by the STU pax. It's a pax killer coming from ESP. To be honest, the best class for the STi is Street Mod. So, everyone needs to make their STi's into 400hp SM cars and go up against the M3's!

[Dean]

Pony Shmoney... Classing is not necessarliy about like cars. There will always be fast and slow cars in a class. A well prepared SP Muscle car should be competitive with an SP STI. Last year's nationals prove it...