JC, I'll stop bitching when you draw me the force diagram that shows the equal and opposite force to the engine thrust that prevents the plane from moving. ;)

Wish I had seen this earlier...

The question is a paradox and has no solution. Theere are two physical systems that are both mutually dependent, and dicontinious at the same timee that generate conditions that mutual exclusive.

The first system is the wings, and airspeed. This combination is the only thing that can lift the plane.

The second system is a belt and planes wheels. "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation."


Since the plane is at rest to begin with "is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor belt" Wheel speed is zero, and since there is no force directly applied to the wheels, they can never spin since "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation" -0 +0 = 0 . The wheels can never turn. There are no provisions in the premis for the conveyor belt to move for any other reason, other than the wheels rotating, so it can never turn. This is the limiting factor in the wheel/conveyor belt system.

The plane of course though can thrust all it wants, and that force should cause motoin, airspeed, and eventually lift. But the tires/conveyor belt cannot turn/move, so neither can the plane.

Paradox...

Go hop in your time machine and kill your grandfather before your father was born if you don't beleive me.

Here I took care of it for you:

The plane isn't a Harrier by chance is it? :lol:

And the plane can take off if there is a headwind greater than or equal to it's takeoff speed.

The only thing I can possibly think of that you are trying to say is that this:

"exactly match the speed of the wheels"

... doesn't refer to the speed of the surface of the wheel/conveyor belt, but the rotational speed. Is this correct?

(It doesn't matter anyway, my plane has huge wheels, their circumference is the same as the circumference of the conveyor belt, so it can still take off!)

you mean headwind + groundspeed (also known as airspeed)

Cody Wins... A VTOL is the only type of plane that makes this a non-paradox.

Yah, and I'm glad I got here late...

lmao, see now you get it. Nice balance on that plane there, sitting on one wheel and all.

Yes Mike, rotational speed. No one measures wheel speed as the speed of the aircraft with respect to the ground. It doesn't matter how big your belt is.

Huh? Well there is no groundspeed, but yah, I guess. I know jack about airplanes.

Sweet, I knew all that late night GTA Vice City would pay off someday. :lol:

Says an american ... ZING!

Actually if the belt and the wheels are the same circumference then they can rotate at the same speed without sliding. Here is a scale diagram to show what I mean:

The size of the wheels doesn't matter.

Ya but you would still be sitting in one place.

OMG, you are such an ass...hahahaha...That killed me. :lol:

You're right. Its the motion of the ocean.

That's just what girls say when the only thing they can stroke without laughing is your ego.

JC,

How can a harrier take off then? It too essentially has a frictionless bottem.

The reason, in my mind, a harrier can take off is that it requires zero latteral motion and therfore doesn't need the landing gear wheels to roll. This is also the reason I said a normal airplane can take off if the headwind is equal to or greater than the [airspeed] the plane requires to lift off.

Same reason a rocket does, lots of vertical thrust.

The version of the question in that thread is the correct version that actually does have a solution.

NASIOC = 16 pages
SECCS = 3 pages

hmmm. . .

Ya well half of us are engineers and one of us is an airplane designer. :p