Dean's Video game comments/perspective
 

Moderators, feel free to move the other related posts as they are polluting an OT thread. :)

What's that you say Sonny... Speak into the horn...

Based on some of these comments, I almost wonder if the sarcasm from the South Park Guitar Hero episode was lost on you youngins and some might even think it would be way cool to get payed to play video games that imitate real musical and sporting activities instead of getting out and doing the real thing.

I'm not saying playing any video game doesn't require skill, but in general, doing the real thing is harder and requires a lot more time and energy to get good at. I skateboarded for an average of an hour a day for years in college and never did get very good other than at getting from point A to B (I never could ollie more than a curb and suck at fakie), but bet I could do more in 1 minutes of playing any Tony hawk game.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some video games, but am saddened by the state of today's youth due to them.

It will be interesting to see if games like GH, RB and the WII games increase participation in the real thing, but I doubt it.

If you missed the episode.

http://southpark.comedycentral.com/v...isodeId=127947

Come on dude, everyone knows that playing BF2 is adequately preparing the next generation for conventional mechanized warfare with the Chinese...those bastards better look out, 'cause they'll get pwNzored!!1!!1!

I actually haven't seen the episode yet Dean, so I won't comment, but if that's the premise, no that wouldn't have been lost on me.

But, I think you are seeing something and drawing conclusions from something that really isn't there. It is true that video games have skyrocketed in popularity in the last 10 years, but for a lot of kids it isn't really taking the place of real activities, they are in addition to them. Most kids that play Tony Hawk have tried to skateboard at least once and know the difference. Some probably do pick it up, some keep playing Tony Hawk and some probably started playing whatever the hot new game is and totally forgot about Tony Hawk. The kids that don't pick up skateboarding probably weren't going to in the first place regardless. Same for kids playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band. The ones that don't want to play real instruments probably aren't going to pick any up anyway.

I think the same can be said for kids playing Grand Theft Auto. There hasn't been a significant rise or decline in automobile related thefts since the game came out because car jackers are car jackers, with or without the game.

Fun is fun, and playing is just playing. Deriving anything more grandiose is a waste of time in my opinion.

Dean was this really worth starting another thread?
Stage 1 of ninja warrior owns you

If I subscribe to this thread, do I get a complementary walker and a "today's kids suck" bumper sticker?

Either that or a "Get off my lawn" sticker.

Nobody is required to read this thread and other than open discussion or possibly amusement, there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

I wonder if there is any data out there on the numbers of kids participating in organized sports and maybe sales of musical instruments over time. I couldn't find anything on the former easily with one google search and I can't imagine any on discretionary sports/athletics like skateboarding.

With a limited amount of time in a day, I would challenge that video games and the Internet are not only stealing "market share" from TV, but athletics and the arts as well. Perhaps they are only stealing from TV, but I doubt it.

Another interesting stat might be the number of "bands" where the star/lead singer plays an instrument over time. It appears we are seeing more and more singing/dancing heads up front with unknown or even recoded musicians. There is probably a musicians trade organization we could look at membership of, but again, a quick look doesn't show any data.

Organizations probably don't like publishing declining participation or membership numbers.

I going to go back to watching TV which doesn't require too much button pushing/mashing effort.

Are you saying that singers are just a face and voice for the band and are not really that important?

The rise of pop-stars with faceless backing bands is about as old as the first video game, but most certainly older than the massive recent rise in popularity. I doubt there is really a correlation. Super producers bringing bringing in pretty faces to sing has been going on since the 70s.

Yeah, I agree that time spent doing x versus y may be less, but I was saying the amount of activities is probably still the same. So, kids might be doing individual activities for less time, but those are probably ones they were only vaguely interested in anyway. Kids are fairly spastic and have short attention spans (always have, always will) and do a wide variety of activities day in and day out. Once someone finds something they like, they'll spend more time doing it. If they don't, who cares. Its not like we as a society have lost a great painter if he drops the paintbrush for an xbox. If someone is that distracted by another activity (regardless of activity), then they weren't destined to enjoy it or be good at it anyway.

And yeah, maybe we've lost a few kids that come home and play video games for hours on end and never leave the house, but from what I've seen, that is not the case. Most kids that play video games these days do not solely sit on the couch and play video games.

IMO, video games are just this generations scape goat for a deeper societal problem that has manifested itself in many different ways. Rock and Roll, Skateboards, TV, Swing and Jazz, etc. Blaming the symptom doesn't cure the disease.

Actually, I do agree with that statement. :lol: Like I said before, most singers get in the way of the music IMO.

Playing rock band etc doesn't automatically exclude you from playing real instruments anyway.

and to Nick: Bah!

You only missed it by 2 decades by forgetting about the original.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...is_presley.jpg

Pretty face? Check
Ripped off sound? Check
Massive commercial success imitated relentlessly? Check
Faceless backing band? Check

Here's a "pretty faced" lead singer for you... :twisted:
http://www.showbizireland.com/images...knot-rds-1.jpg


I have to say, that I really don't agree that the lead singer of any particular band is just "in the way." It does happen, but really, IMO, most bands that fall under that category, don't really have much of a band in the back to start out with. The vast majority of bands in that situation, are CRAP from front to back. Dean Martin could be singing, and it wouldn't do a damn thing for the "canned music" backing him up.

"Good music" as far as I'm concerned, is hard to find anymore. Not much has been made in quite some years now that has really had anything to say to me. As far as vocalist music goes, you can't just sing well or be catchy to have my attention. You've gotta write some lyrics that amuse, or interest, or incite something. Not just f*ing words.



Oh, and video games rot your brain. Just look at Bob...

Yeah Cory, that's actually really what I meant. There are decent vocalists and lyricists out there, but 99% of them are not worth listening to, because most have nothing to say and/or no original way to say it.

All these stupid video games are taking time away from writing insightful lyrics :mad: and they are trampling my lawn :mad: :mad:

Yeah, good point, it did happen further back but it was almost perfected in the 70's with the rise of disco and R&B's decent into radio friendly mediocrity.

Sorry, I got sidetracked by a mindless 1 star movie while writing this...

Not at all. Ok, maybe a bit. If the band has a web or MySpace page and it doesn't list the musicians, then it isn't a band, they are an "artist" and in some cases, that is questionable. And yes, this has been happening since the 70s, but continues to grow.

But my question is, are there fewer musicians out there as well? Are there more singing heads for marketing reasons or are there fewer bands? I don't know the answer, and I know there are a ton of bands out there, but are there as many as in the past?

I'm not blaming video games or the Internet, I would never personify inanimate objects in that manner. :)

I blame the parents. The same parents that want to blame everyone but themselves for their children's actions and expect the schools to do their jobs for them, but that is an entirely different rant. :)

I know kids have no attention span, I was one once upon a time. I just remember spending a whole lot more time using more muscles than my fingers. :)

I'm as guilty as the next guy for sitting on my ass. I used to skate to and from class, play intermural or other sports and then run and work out for an hour 3 times a week. no wonder I weighed 30 pounds less and had probably 20% less body fat. I'm working on fixing that, it used to be closer to 50 pounds, but it is way tougher when you older, but I digress.

So, are video games making us fat, no, just like bullets don't kill people, it's not their fault, they are only the means. The instant gratification, do as little as possible, take no responsibility blame others and expect the government to bail us out when it all goes bad mentality is really at fault.

I think I've lost my point....

Oh yeah, watching someone you don't know, play a video game no matter how much skill may or may not be involved which may or may not resemble an actual artistic skill is indicative of a sad state of our society, myself included IMO. No "H" because we are also anything but humble.

The prosecution rests. :lol:

There must be more bands. There are millions of more people around. Just statistics right?

Eh, done arguing really. But I rue the day when I find something whippersnappers like that I don't.

Anyway, the point about bands, it kind of depends on how you want to count it. I believe I remember reading somewhere that there are more signed bands now than ever, but there is no way to count garage bands and whatnot. In fact, it was more an article on how easy it is to get signed and noticed these days with the internet and whatnot, and rising popularity for new and undiscovered bands (instead of the stadium fillers of yesteryear). Counting talented bands and marketing shills, though, is harder because a lot of times individual taste and opinion get in the way too much.

Lastly, its pronounced Kō-an. Not Cone. :p

My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62...yJ/rimshot.gif

I'm not argueing to the best of my knowledge, sorry if you feel that way.

I bet there are fewer people making a living as musicians as a percentage of the population than in the past.

Another interesting way to judge would be to look at relative longevity of music over time. What percentage of music created in a given year is still being bought or played. iTunes data could probably give you that easily or there is probably a Billboard top 1000 or more of all time. Not that just because it was popular means it was great musically, but it is better than nothing.

Yeah as a percentage of population is a whole different measurement.

I hope were not arguing about what music is "better" based on some kind of sales attribute b/c that is stupid.

I thought this was a video game thread. Now its a be sad for music thread?

Yeah I like the music in Rock Band. Well some of it at least.

I'm going to defend Bobby, since he hasn't posted here yet to do it himself. Bobby's brain was well rotted before he started playing video games.

Although I will admit, since I graduated from HS, video games have kind of taken place of my regular physical activity. Mostly because now I have to make an effort to exercise and playing video games is easier. So yes, I'm lazy. But playing video games hasn't changed that, I've always been lazy. Even if the video games weren't there, I would have just as hard of a time getting motivated to exercise.

Yeah, arguing is generally what its called when two or more people with differing opinions try to convince each other to accept the contrary opinion. It can be civil (which I think it is) or it can get more heated, but either way its still arguing. To believe otherwise is just splitting hairs.

We could rename it "Dean and Nicks Opinionation Extravaganza"?

Let's not debate what is and isn't arguing, let's just agree to disagree. :)

And I am not debating the relative merits of one artist or genre vs. another, just thinking of ways to quantify the number of musicians. OK, I also had the idea to determine relative merit of music over time by some means, but that would probably just prove baby boomers buy or vote for a lot of music.

No argument from me over that title. :)

Video games are evil.

No it isn't.

Wait, is this room 12?

Playing the original SSX inspired me to go buy a snowboard and gear THEN learn how to use it. It's a two way street.

I remember the sound of the snow crushing below the board and thinking wow, that's just like the game.

Hooray!

My perception of Dean has just been radically altered. :lol:

I was a skater punk in grade school. . . over the last several years at gamestop I'd always gotten a kick out of the kids that go nuts over the Tony Hawk games, because I remember reading about his noob days in Thrasher mag.

Anyway, I don't know that I have anything worthwhile to add to the video game discussion. I can see both sides on this one, simply because there is no real evidence one way or the other. It's certainly possible that some kids who might play sports are instead playing video games, but there is nothing really to show that the games are not simply replacing other less physical activities, such as watching TV or reading books.

That's the case with me, at least; video games have always only been competition for other indoor hobbies such as reading or writing (and they've entirely replaced the total waste of time that is broadcast television). When it comes to getting outdoors, I'd rather take my RS to Stead than sit at home and play Forza 2.

I should note that I do not play sports video games such as Madden or Tony Hawk. I take my video games as escapist entertainment - my time is spent with more other-worldly or fantastical stuff like Elder Scrolls, Half-Life, Metroid, Zelda, Metal Gear, etc., and I tend to shy away from realistic, modern warfare shooters simply because after a length of military service, they feel like work. :| And the Tony Hawk games seem silly to me because skateboarding is an activity that I subconsciously equate with elementary school.

I can say, though, in my experience selling games, that a lot of kids tend to pick up games that coincide with their preferred sports or hobbies. I've seen plenty of kids enter the store with a skateboard in one hand and leave with a copy of Tony Hawk in the other. The same goes for other sports, be they baseball, basketball, football. . . since most sports are seasonal, many kids buy the video games simply to supplement their existing interest, and still participate in the real activity when able.

So, are video game buyers any fatter than our average fat society in your opinion?

Dean, I would say the fat society has more to do with the kids eating fast food instead of healthy alternatives. Just look at the lunch menus at the higher grade levels. For example, at my High School, the menu consisted of Pizza and French Fries. These were available on a daily basis. There was other things available, but the majority of the students who didn't leave campus to get Taco Bell, McD's or Burger King stayed and ate Pizza. I ate a PowerBar and an Apple for lunch almost on a daily basis. But then again, I only weighted in at 134lbs my Senior year, wrestled 119lb weight class my Freshman year.

As for me and video games, I used them to escape reality. I hated the way things were in my life, my wife was a bitch, I was always stressed out. So at lunch time I would play Call of Duty. That eventaully tranfered over to what little spare time I had at home. Of course that didn't make things better for me with the wife. So, eventually we split up and got divorced. How do you think I got that STI and met up with this club? At that point the car became an escape from reality. Did I have to sell it to Pete, no. I knew perfectly well that I could buckle up and keep it. But I made a decision, that I had to stop escaping from my reality and start fixing it.

Having said that, I haven't watched any TV except for maybe 10 minutes one morning while eating my bowl of cereal. I watched the news. Other than that, I have been stuck behind a computer playing World of Warcraft with 3 other friends. Been having a great time doing it too. Am I using it to escape reality, no. Am I a couch potatoe, probably. But I have been doing some running when I get home from work. I have also been eating more healthy too, I can't remember but I think the last time I went to BK or McD has been months ago. Basically, I have lost 20 or so pounds from this summer. All while playing longer hours of video games. LOL

99% of the gamers I know are skinny as hell. Your fat made by gaming theory is out the window. When you figure that over 60% of the people in America are fat, there is probably a decent number of fat gamers.

I totally have a solution to answer this question.

What we need to do is build a time machine, then take your average video game playing, fast food eating american, and force him into a battle to the death, against his 1955 counterpart.

I volunteer to go back. You guys work out the rest and get back to me.

Finally a way to get rid of him :lol:

You have a choice of arriving in 1955 naked, in a Delorean, or both, you choose, I'm just glad I won't be there to see either. :P

Why not Dean? You could revisit your 30s? :P

Don't make me go Buzz Aldrin on your ass! One old man already busted your arm up sonny boy...

Well played old grasshoppah!

:ba-dum-ching: :lol:

Exactly... I remember the squeaky sound of the siringe and thinking wow, that's just like the game...

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6940/catchmeps7.gif

http://www.gamegum.com/game/1857/heroin-hero/

psst I would've gone naked even if it wasn't necessary.

Truly obese people were rare in my store. Perhaps they bought all their games online.
Although. . . the turnout for the WoW Burning Crusade xpack midnight launch was a bit on the chunky side, so I dunno.

Seriously, though. . . I will not try to deny that there are people who play games to an unhealthy degree, and should set the controller down to get some exercise and fresh air. I freely admit that games can be addictive and destructive if not used in moderation. But I would certainly not say that games are guilty of making people fat. Part of it is the old "guns don't kill people" argument, and in fact, I'd say that the perception may be backwards. . . perhaps gamers don't get fat; rather, fat people just end up playing games. Particularly in the case of MMOs, it gives them an opportunity to experience things and be social without their physical self "getting in the way." Ultimately, though, I'm with Brian on this one: we need to fix the country's diet before we look at games. The fat folk would get fat even without video games, because there's still fast food and other lazy entertainment such as TV.

The average gaming community is changing anyway: 20 years ago, the average gamer was a skinny grade-school kid with an NES that got picked on a lot at school. The Playstation changed all that; the rise of popular games like Madden NFL made it ok for the jocks and "cool kids" to play too. Now adults and seniors play. There really is no average or typical gamer anymore.

MMO people are another story. Thems boys is crazy.

In fact, I take a complete 180, and agree with everything Dean says in regards to the MMO crowd.

On Guitar Hero and Rock Band, this very topic came up on Friday's Penny Arcade text:

The argument is a good one. Even if I enjoyed football, I would not likely go out to play it. I prefer my limbs and spine intact, thank you. An appropriate substitute would be a video game, especially since the alternative - merely watching football - leaves one essentially inactive, requiring little input.

The same could be said for instruments. Perhaps I like music but do not care to learn an instrument, or know how to play an instrument other than guitar. In either case, I will not be learning how to play guitar, but my love for music can be enough to prompt me to play Guitar Hero, and enjoy the excitement of interacting with the audio.

There is sometimes a financial aspect to consider as well. If one is interested in motorsports, but is too young to compete, or finds the cost of preparing a car and getting it out to RFR to be too restrictive, an XB360 and a copy of Forza 2 can provide a satisfactory surrogate.

If you are actually creating original music on a video game, or if it is even creating "covers", great, but mashing buttons in synch to 'nSync is not the same as creating or playing music in any way.

Its not really supposed to be. And whether it is, or it isn't is incidental to the main point that it's supposed to be a game, which is supposed to be fun.

Nah, GuitarHero is pretty much just like playing a real guitar, pfffft ask anybody.

I think a couple of popular bands are switching to GuitarHero guitars because they just a funner to play. Kind of makes you think.