Dean's Video game comments/perspective

[Dean]

Moderators, feel free to move the other related posts as they are polluting an OT thread.

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

No, you didn't offend me. Its just amazing how far out in right field you are some times and it boggles the mind. Maybe its just a generational gap.

What's that you say Sonny... Speak into the horn...

Based on some of these comments, I almost wonder if the sarcasm from the South Park Guitar Hero episode was lost on you youngins and some might even think it would be way cool to get payed to play video games that imitate real musical and sporting activities instead of getting out and doing the real thing.

I'm not saying playing any video game doesn't require skill, but in general, doing the real thing is harder and requires a lot more time and energy to get good at. I skateboarded for an average of an hour a day for years in college and never did get very good other than at getting from point A to B (I never could ollie more than a curb and suck at fakie), but bet I could do more in 1 minutes of playing any Tony hawk game.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some video games, but am saddened by the state of today's youth due to them.

It will be interesting to see if games like GH, RB and the WII games increase participation in the real thing, but I doubt it.

[Joeyy]

If you missed the episode.

http://southpark.comedycentral.com/v...isodeId=127947

[ScottyS]

Come on dude, everyone knows that playing BF2 is adequately preparing the next generation for conventional mechanized warfare with the Chinese...those bastards better look out, 'cause they'll get pwNzored!!1!!1!

[Nick Koan]

I actually haven't seen the episode yet Dean, so I won't comment, but if that's the premise, no that wouldn't have been lost on me.

But, I think you are seeing something and drawing conclusions from something that really isn't there. It is true that video games have skyrocketed in popularity in the last 10 years, but for a lot of kids it isn't really taking the place of real activities, they are in addition to them. Most kids that play Tony Hawk have tried to skateboard at least once and know the difference. Some probably do pick it up, some keep playing Tony Hawk and some probably started playing whatever the hot new game is and totally forgot about Tony Hawk. The kids that don't pick up skateboarding probably weren't going to in the first place regardless. Same for kids playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band. The ones that don't want to play real instruments probably aren't going to pick any up anyway.

I think the same can be said for kids playing Grand Theft Auto. There hasn't been a significant rise or decline in automobile related thefts since the game came out because car jackers are car jackers, with or without the game.

Fun is fun, and playing is just playing. Deriving anything more grandiose is a waste of time in my opinion.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Dean was this really worth starting another thread?
Stage 1 of ninja warrior owns you

[sperry]

If I subscribe to this thread, do I get a complementary walker and a "today's kids suck" bumper sticker?

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by sperry

If I subscribe to this thread, do I get a complementary walker and a "today's kids suck" bumper sticker?

Either that or a "Get off my lawn" sticker.

[Dean]

Nobody is required to read this thread and other than open discussion or possibly amusement, there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

I wonder if there is any data out there on the numbers of kids participating in organized sports and maybe sales of musical instruments over time. I couldn't find anything on the former easily with one google search and I can't imagine any on discretionary sports/athletics like skateboarding.

With a limited amount of time in a day, I would challenge that video games and the Internet are not only stealing "market share" from TV, but athletics and the arts as well. Perhaps they are only stealing from TV, but I doubt it.

Another interesting stat might be the number of "bands" where the star/lead singer plays an instrument over time. It appears we are seeing more and more singing/dancing heads up front with unknown or even recoded musicians. There is probably a musicians trade organization we could look at membership of, but again, a quick look doesn't show any data.

Organizations probably don't like publishing declining participation or membership numbers.

I going to go back to watching TV which doesn't require too much button pushing/mashing effort.

[tysonK]

Originally Posted by Dean

Another interesting stat might be the number of "bands" where the star/lead singer plays an instrument over time. It appears we are seeing more and more singing/dancing heads up front with unknown or even recoded musicians. There is probably a musicians trade organization we could look at membership of, but again, a quick look doesn't show any data.

Are you saying that singers are just a face and voice for the band and are not really that important?

[Nick Koan]

The rise of pop-stars with faceless backing bands is about as old as the first video game, but most certainly older than the massive recent rise in popularity. I doubt there is really a correlation. Super producers bringing bringing in pretty faces to sing has been going on since the 70s.

Yeah, I agree that time spent doing x versus y may be less, but I was saying the amount of activities is probably still the same. So, kids might be doing individual activities for less time, but those are probably ones they were only vaguely interested in anyway. Kids are fairly spastic and have short attention spans (always have, always will) and do a wide variety of activities day in and day out. Once someone finds something they like, they'll spend more time doing it. If they don't, who cares. Its not like we as a society have lost a great painter if he drops the paintbrush for an xbox. If someone is that distracted by another activity (regardless of activity), then they weren't destined to enjoy it or be good at it anyway.

And yeah, maybe we've lost a few kids that come home and play video games for hours on end and never leave the house, but from what I've seen, that is not the case. Most kids that play video games these days do not solely sit on the couch and play video games.

IMO, video games are just this generations scape goat for a deeper societal problem that has manifested itself in many different ways. Rock and Roll, Skateboards, TV, Swing and Jazz, etc. Blaming the symptom doesn't cure the disease.

Originally Posted by tysonK

Are you saying that singers are just a face and voice for the band and are not really that important?

Actually, I do agree with that statement. Like I said before, most singers get in the way of the music IMO.

[tysonK]

Playing rock band etc doesn't automatically exclude you from playing real instruments anyway.

and to Nick: Bah!

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

The rise of pop-stars with faceless backing bands is about as old as the first video game, but most certainly older than the massive recent rise in popularity. I doubt there is really a correlation. Super producers bringing bringing in pretty faces to sing has been going on since the 70s.

You only missed it by 2 decades by forgetting about the original.



Pretty face? Check
Ripped off sound? Check
Massive commercial success imitated relentlessly? Check
Faceless backing band? Check

[MPREZIV]

Here's a "pretty faced" lead singer for you...



I have to say, that I really don't agree that the lead singer of any particular band is just "in the way." It does happen, but really, IMO, most bands that fall under that category, don't really have much of a band in the back to start out with. The vast majority of bands in that situation, are CRAP from front to back. Dean Martin could be singing, and it wouldn't do a damn thing for the "canned music" backing him up.

"Good music" as far as I'm concerned, is hard to find anymore. Not much has been made in quite some years now that has really had anything to say to me. As far as vocalist music goes, you can't just sing well or be catchy to have my attention. You've gotta write some lyrics that amuse, or interest, or incite something. Not just f*ing words.



Oh, and video games rot your brain. Just look at Bob...

[Nick Koan]

Yeah Cory, that's actually really what I meant. There are decent vocalists and lyricists out there, but 99% of them are not worth listening to, because most have nothing to say and/or no original way to say it.

All these stupid video games are taking time away from writing insightful lyrics and they are trampling my lawn

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by sperry

You only missed it by 2 decades by forgetting about the original.



Pretty face? Check
Ripped off sound? Check
Massive commercial success imitated relentlessly? Check
Faceless backing band? Check

Yeah, good point, it did happen further back but it was almost perfected in the 70's with the rise of disco and R&B's decent into radio friendly mediocrity.

[Dean]

Sorry, I got sidetracked by a mindless 1 star movie while writing this...

Originally Posted by tysonK

Are you saying that singers are just a face and voice for the band and are not really that important?

Not at all. Ok, maybe a bit. If the band has a web or MySpace page and it doesn't list the musicians, then it isn't a band, they are an "artist" and in some cases, that is questionable. And yes, this has been happening since the 70s, but continues to grow.

But my question is, are there fewer musicians out there as well? Are there more singing heads for marketing reasons or are there fewer bands? I don't know the answer, and I know there are a ton of bands out there, but are there as many as in the past?

Originally Posted by Nick Cone :)

IMO, video games are just this generations scape goat for a deeper societal problem that has manifested itself in many different ways. Rock and Roll, Skateboards, TV, Swing and Jazz, etc. Blaming the symptom doesn't cure the disease.

I'm not blaming video games or the Internet, I would never personify inanimate objects in that manner.

I blame the parents. The same parents that want to blame everyone but themselves for their children's actions and expect the schools to do their jobs for them, but that is an entirely different rant.

I know kids have no attention span, I was one once upon a time. I just remember spending a whole lot more time using more muscles than my fingers.

I'm as guilty as the next guy for sitting on my ass. I used to skate to and from class, play intermural or other sports and then run and work out for an hour 3 times a week. no wonder I weighed 30 pounds less and had probably 20% less body fat. I'm working on fixing that, it used to be closer to 50 pounds, but it is way tougher when you older, but I digress.

So, are video games making us fat, no, just like bullets don't kill people, it's not their fault, they are only the means. The instant gratification, do as little as possible, take no responsibility blame others and expect the government to bail us out when it all goes bad mentality is really at fault.

I think I've lost my point....

Oh yeah, watching someone you don't know, play a video game no matter how much skill may or may not be involved which may or may not resemble an actual artistic skill is indicative of a sad state of our society, myself included IMO. No "H" because we are also anything but humble.

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

Oh, and video games rot your brain. Just look at Bob...

The prosecution rests.

[tysonK]

There must be more bands. There are millions of more people around. Just statistics right?

[Nick Koan]

Eh, done arguing really. But I rue the day when I find something whippersnappers like that I don't.

Anyway, the point about bands, it kind of depends on how you want to count it. I believe I remember reading somewhere that there are more signed bands now than ever, but there is no way to count garage bands and whatnot. In fact, it was more an article on how easy it is to get signed and noticed these days with the internet and whatnot, and rising popularity for new and undiscovered bands (instead of the stadium fillers of yesteryear). Counting talented bands and marketing shills, though, is harder because a lot of times individual taste and opinion get in the way too much.

Lastly, its pronounced Kō-an. Not Cone.

[100_Percent_Juice]

My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.

[Dean]

I'm not argueing to the best of my knowledge, sorry if you feel that way.

I bet there are fewer people making a living as musicians as a percentage of the population than in the past.

Another interesting way to judge would be to look at relative longevity of music over time. What percentage of music created in a given year is still being bought or played. iTunes data could probably give you that easily or there is probably a Billboard top 1000 or more of all time. Not that just because it was popular means it was great musically, but it is better than nothing.

[tysonK]

Yeah as a percentage of population is a whole different measurement.

I hope were not arguing about what music is "better" based on some kind of sales attribute b/c that is stupid.

[100_Percent_Juice]

I thought this was a video game thread. Now its a be sad for music thread?

[tysonK]

Yeah I like the music in Rock Band. Well some of it at least.

[JonnydaJibba]

I'm going to defend Bobby, since he hasn't posted here yet to do it himself. Bobby's brain was well rotted before he started playing video games.

Although I will admit, since I graduated from HS, video games have kind of taken place of my regular physical activity. Mostly because now I have to make an effort to exercise and playing video games is easier. So yes, I'm lazy. But playing video games hasn't changed that, I've always been lazy. Even if the video games weren't there, I would have just as hard of a time getting motivated to exercise.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by Dean

I'm not argueing to the best of my knowledge, sorry if you feel that way.

Yeah, arguing is generally what its called when two or more people with differing opinions try to convince each other to accept the contrary opinion. It can be civil (which I think it is) or it can get more heated, but either way its still arguing. To believe otherwise is just splitting hairs.