Cleaned MAF, idle problem - Page 6 - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

SteveM · 2007-11-26, 09:33 PM

Dang, I forgot I even posted that.

Dean · 2007-11-26, 10:19 PM

Ahhh, Stealth316... My old home from my own Stealth days and where I learned much of what I know about forced induction and AWD cars.

cody · 2007-11-26, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Dang, I forgot I even posted that.

Lurker.

SteveM · 2007-11-27, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody

Lurker.

Yep.

dayofpain · 2007-11-27, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

If you have a good intercooler, it's not X-10 != Y-10, it's X cooled to ambient == Y cooled to ambient, in which case, a CAI makes no difference.

Whether or not anyone's IC's are that good is the question... probably not so much on a hot day, but on a hot day, you're going to be losing power anyway so what's the difference of losing 10hp vs 12hp... is not really significant.

sure it is.

its all cumulative. that why we do mods that are +10hp here and +8hp there.

cause all the little ones add up. right now im chasing a number, 400. thats only 23 away. which means 2 hp here and there by fixing some badly designed tubing is all i need.

it also makes the point about tuning. chasing those last 3-4 hp? need or want a tune. its all relative to that statement.

at what point is it worth it?

sperry · 2007-11-27, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dayofpain

sure it is.

its all cumulative. that why we do mods that are +10hp here and +8hp there.

cause all the little ones add up. right now im chasing a number, 400. thats only 23 away. which means 2 hp here and there by fixing some badly designed tubing is all i need.

it also makes the point about tuning. chasing those last 3-4 hp? need or want a tune. its all relative to that statement.

at what point is it worth it?

I couldn't care less about a number. As long as I'm faster than the competition around the track, that's all that matters. When it's hot out and I'm losing a few hp, so is the competition. If I'm loosing significantly more than the other guy, that's a problem, but 2 hp for example is not going to be a deal breaker... hell +/-15 hp still makes less of a difference in my lap times than making driving mistakes or not.

knucklesplitter · 2007-11-27, 02:14 PM

Cold air is better than hot air at the inlet no matter how good the IC is. Cold air is denser and your turbo will more more oxygen molecules with denser air. Not terribly significant but it is better.

The real problem with short rams is that the hot air throws off the ECU temp. corrections. The hot underhood air makes the ECU (which has temp. correction tables set up for cold air induction) think that it 1pm in Death Valley on the hottest day of the year, when really it's just a mild summer day. The ECU then pulls timing, and you can feel it. The temp. correction tables can be redone by the tuner but this is not done for any stage maps I know of. Also you never really know if the IC is heat soaked which is really what the ECU needs to know. Subaru should have an intake air temp sensor after the IC, because this is where it counts - just before the air goes in the engine... but it doesn't. This is one of the big advantages of blow-thru MAF - the IAT sensor is part of the MAF sensor and with BTM the temp. will be sensed after the IC.

dayofpain · 2007-11-27, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

I couldn't care less about a number. As long as I'm faster than the competition around the track, that's all that matters. When it's hot out and I'm losing a few hp, so is the competition. If I'm loosing significantly more than the other guy, that's a problem, but 2 hp for example is not going to be a deal breaker... hell +/-15 hp still makes less of a difference in my lap times than making driving mistakes or not.

that is exactly my point.

all parties in this argument have different objectives.

mine are numbers and straight line performance. sure yeah i want to autox next year. it sounds fun and finally appeals to me. but lets face it, ill be in a retarded class and wont be able to beat anyone my first year. which brings us to the reason i do it all.

enjoyment. not being right or faster. right now, its numbers that do it. who knows what it will be tomorrow.

i know this weekend it will be the installation of new coilovers.

cody · 2007-11-27, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knucklesplitter

Cold air is better than hot air at the inlet no matter how good the IC is. Cold air is denser and your turbo will more more oxygen molecules with denser air. Not terribly significant but it is better.

The real problem with short rams is that the hot air throws off the ECU temp. corrections. The hot underhood air makes the ECU (which has temp. correction tables set up for cold air induction) think that it 1pm in Death Valley on the hottest day of the year, when really it's just a mild summer day. The ECU then pulls timing, and you can feel it. The temp. correction tables can be redone by the tuner but this is not done for any stage maps I know of. Also you never really know if the IC is heat soaked which is really what the ECU needs to know. Subaru should have an intake air temp sensor after the IC, because this is where it counts - just before the air goes in the engine... but it doesn't. This is one of the big advantages of blow-thru MAF - the IAT sensor is part of the MAF sensor and with BTM the temp. will be sensed after the IC.

Word.

Top one is 02-05 WRX, second is STi....

Dean · 2007-11-27, 11:16 PM

This is why short ram is bad, but I still don't believe the fender is any colder than the stock setup.

The only good reason to do a fender CAI is for higher/smoother flow, not temp.

dayofpain · 2007-12-05, 12:42 AM

i know the fender is colder on my ride.

dunno about anyone elses though.

cody · 2007-12-05, 08:43 AM

Mine too.

ddub · 2007-12-05, 09:52 AM

Sperry hooked me up with a stock intake and chopped silencer, so it should be acting like a CAI. Does anyone know if you can use K&N filter oil on a ITG filter?

sperry · 2007-12-05, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddub

Sperry hooked me up with a stock intake and chopped silencer, so it should be acting like a CAI. Does anyone know if you can use K&N filter oil on a ITG filter?

DO NOT use the K&N oil on the ITG. K&N "oil" is actually animal fat designed for use in the cotton K&N element. Get the correct oil for a foam filter.

This is the stuff I use (ignore the Mini Cooper nonsense, it's for any foam filter): http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...r_cleaning_kit

The cleaner stinks to high hell though. One kit is plenty for 4 or 5 cleanings/oilings as long as you don't let the filter get so dirty you run out of cleaner early.

Dean · 2007-12-05, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

DO NOT use the K&N oil on the ITG. K&N "oil" is actually animal fat designed for use in the cotton K&N element. Get the correct oil for a foam filter.

This is the stuff I use (ignore the Mini Cooper nonsense, it's for any foam filter): http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...r_cleaning_kit

The cleaner stinks to high hell though. One kit is plenty for 4 or 5 cleanings/oilings as long as you don't let the filter get so dirty you run out of cleaner early.

Most people overuse the cleaner including me in the past. A light coat of cleaner, wait, hose out let dry and go back if necessary on dirty spots.

Warm water (not hot) in a sink is even better.

knucklesplitter · 2007-12-05, 01:15 PM

I have a K&N filter iffin y'want it...

ddub · 2007-12-05, 02:38 PM

Thanks, I did notice that some oil drips off of the ITG filter on the bottom of the air box. I'm gonna get some foam filter oil and try it out. Let me know how much you would want for you K&N just in case.

knucklesplitter · 2007-12-05, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddub

Thanks, I did notice that some oil drips off of the ITG filter on the bottom of the air box. I'm gonna get some foam filter oil and try it out. Let me know how much you would want for you K&N just in case.

$20-ish...

2007-11-26, 10:19 PM	#127
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	Ahhh, Stealth316... My old home from my own Stealth days and where I learned much of what I know about forced induction and AWD cars. __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids... Last edited by Dean; 2007-11-26 at 10:22 PM.

2007-11-27, 11:16 PM	#135
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	This is why short ram is bad, but I still don't believe the fender is any colder than the stock setup. The only good reason to do a fender CAI is for higher/smoother flow, not temp. __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

2007-12-05, 12:42 AM	#136
dayofpain R.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: reno, nv Posts: 599 Car: 09 335xi silva	i know the fender is colder on my ride. dunno about anyone elses though. __________________ DayOfPain "In order for me to get busy at maximum efficiency, i need a girl with a big 400 ton booty."

2007-12-05, 08:43 AM	#137
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	Mine too. __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo.

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knucklesplitter EJ205 Real Name: Matt Taylor Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cousin-Fck, Carolina Posts: 1,475 Wish in one hand and sht in the other...	Cold air is better than hot air at the inlet no matter how good the IC is. Cold air is denser and your turbo will more more oxygen molecules with denser air. Not terribly significant but it is better. The real problem with short rams is that the hot air throws off the ECU temp. corrections. The hot underhood air makes the ECU (which has temp. correction tables set up for cold air induction) think that it 1pm in Death Valley on the hottest day of the year, when really it's just a mild summer day. The ECU then pulls timing, and you can feel it. The temp. correction tables can be redone by the tuner but this is not done for any stage maps I know of. Also you never really know if the IC is heat soaked which is really what the ECU needs to know. Subaru should have an intake air temp sensor after the IC, because this is where it counts - just before the air goes in the engine... but it doesn't. This is one of the big advantages of blow-thru MAF - the IAT sensor is part of the MAF sensor and with BTM the temp. will be sensed after the IC.

2007-12-05, 09:52 AM	#138
ddub EJ22 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 110 Car: 04 wrx, bunch of mods	Sperry hooked me up with a stock intake and chopped silencer, so it should be acting like a CAI. Does anyone know if you can use K&N filter oil on a ITG filter?

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knucklesplitter EJ205 Real Name: Matt Taylor Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cousin-Fck, Carolina Posts: 1,475 Wish in one hand and sht in the other...	I have a K&N filter iffin y'want it...

2007-12-05, 02:38 PM	#142
ddub EJ22 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 110 Car: 04 wrx, bunch of mods	Thanks, I did notice that some oil drips off of the ITG filter on the bottom of the air box. I'm gonna get some foam filter oil and try it out. Let me know how much you would want for you K&N just in case.