2004 Reno PAX/RTP

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dknv

More mods = SM or SU

That's just the thing... a competative SM car means I need a new turbo, intercooler, fuel system, 2.5L block... you know everything to make 450hp and gobs of torque down low.

I just wanna turn my boost up, and run intercooler hoses and an ALK.

STU should be STX + intake/intercooler mods + boost mods / new turbo + injectors. Also stuff like the ALK, tranny mounts, cross braces. But all still bolt-ons. That way you could crank up the boost or go to a bigger turbo (which might not actually help because AutoX isn't about top-end power) but you wouldn't have to compete with a 318ti that's got a super-charged M3 motor. See what I mean?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by dknv

Sounds like its official, scca approved STU and STS2 for National Tour events.
http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultima...ic/22/751.html

Matt - you bring up a good question. Dean: as a reno scca board member, can you help us understand how this would be addressed by reno?

First, I can now get my ass whooped in my Stealth by an unlimited NA engine Mustang in two classes! SM, and STU!!!

From a Reno region perspective, I do not know what we will do this season about this. Since no PAX data is available, even if we do allow them, they may not be eligible for PAX. I will ping Dave and Eric...

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

That's just the thing... a competative SM car means I need a new turbo, intercooler, fuel system, 2.5L block... you know everything to make 450hp and gobs of torque down low.

I just wanna turn my boost up, and run intercooler hoses and an ALK.

STU should be STX + intake/intercooler mods + boost mods / new turbo + injectors. Also stuff like the ALK, tranny mounts, cross braces. But all still bolt-ons. That way you could crank up the boost or go to a bigger turbo (which might not actually help because AutoX isn't about top-end power) but you wouldn't have to compete with a 318ti that's got a super-charged M3 motor. See what I mean?

Unfortunately, what you describe appears to be a Turbo Only class, as I cannot think of any simple NA equivelents to your acceptable mods other than unlimited which means welcome to SM, or NSM. SCCA is unlikely to have a Turbo Only class.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

First, I can now get my ass whooped in my Stealth by an unlimited NA engine Mustang in two classes! SM, and STU!!!

Heh heh heh... :wink:

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

unfortunately, what you describe appears to be a Turbo Only class, as I cannot think of any simple NA equivelents to your acceptable mods other than unlimited which means welcome to SM, or NSM. SCCA is unlikely to have a Turbo Only class.

Good point.... I guess the equivalent mod on a N/A motor would be heads and cams (or adding forced induction ) I guess allowing heads/cams would be okay... somthing along the lines of allowing forced induction (modifications or addition of), and engine internals, but the motor must be the original motor for that car, and displacement must remain the same as stock...

I'm trying to avoid the franken-cars you get in SM that weigh nothing and have 500hp. A class between SP and SM... where cars like my WRX, Austin's Mustang, and your Stealth would basically be near the max for the class.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by sperry

Though I can see an STU STi being a *very* formitable beast!

So, will this be an upgrade path for Matt and Mike?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

That's just the thing... a competative SM car means I need a new turbo, intercooler, fuel system, 2.5L block... you know everything to make 450hp and gobs of torque down low.

Umm, dude? Unless you're planning on taking your ass directly to Nationals, you don't need that much power to be "competitive" in SM. That's "squashing everyone else like a bug" power in SM at the regional level. I've been "competitive" in SM with maybe 250bhp in a car that's heavier than yours and has a poor suspension.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Umm, dude? Unless you're planning on taking your ass directly to Nationals, you don't need that much power to be "competitive" in SM. That's "squashing everyone else like a bug" power in SM at the regional level. I've been "competitive" in SM with maybe 250bhp in a car that's heavier than yours and has a poor suspension.

Uh, actually, I *am* talking about Divisionally/Nationally competative. I think Dean and I would have a good battle in SM here in Reno, but we both know we're not really at a "competative SM" level.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Uh, actually, I *am* talking about Divisionally/Nationally competative.

Oh.

Have fun with Sias and Reitmeir then...

[img:17aa7b4d38=600]http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Autocross%20Events/2003-04-05%20SFR%20Autocross%20-%20Golden%20Gate%20Fields/Trailered%20E36%20M3%201.jpg[/img:17aa7b4d38]

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Heh heh heh... :wink:

Oh, make that three, I forgot, freaking Corvettes in BSP! It really is a cool car, but it just isn't geared for autocross, and there is no way to fix that.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Oh.

Have fun with Sias and Reitmeir then...

[img:fa710adef2=600]http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Autocross%20Events/2003-04-05%20SFR%20Autocross%20-%20Golden%20Gate%20Fields/Trailered%20E36%20M3%201.jpg[/img:fa710adef2]

My point exactly.... I don't have the $40k *more* I'd need to spend to get to that level... and that's $40k in addition to the cost of the STi I'd have to buy.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

I'm trying to avoid the franken-cars you get in SM that weigh nothing and have 500hp.

Yeah. Sorry about that. Actually, don't feel bad- I have to be in these classes or I can't do anything to win my class. Thank goodness for PAX. Here's my breakdown-

G Stock- In theory my car could compete in this class thanks to lots of torque- but it's heavy and who wants run an RS with a 13mm RSB anyway?

STS- No chance. Too many Civic Si hatchbacks that weigh 1800 pounds and have 10 less horsepower.

ST-X- No chance, only now it's teh WRXs that whip me.

Street Mod- unlimited engine (well, close enough considering the FHI-derived options) But still some key limitations, i.e. ALK). Still can't develop a really good power-to-weight ratio

Street Unlimited- Those aren't really cars in that class anymore.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Street Unlimited- Those aren't really cars in that class anymore.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by dknv

So, will this be an upgrade path for Matt and Mike?

It's a possibility, But for this year, I'm running NAS. I imagine ESP wil lgo away as an option for the STI, SO STU will probably be where I end up in 05.

[MikeSTI]

I might not even run in anything this year but STU fo' sho next year
There's a lot of things I need to do to my car, any one want to PM me the list :wink:

[MattR]

I've been doing some extensive reading on the new STU class. Dean, Debbie, I think Reno SCCA needs to run this class this year. It is official from the SCCA, it was discussed at the Topeka convention, so I imagine Dave DeBorde has some knowledge of it. Let me know if you hear anything...also, I might bring it up when I see him this weekend, if this class is indeed an option locally, I may consider it, but I have a lot to do to the car


Basically, it would allow for an STX-prepped STI! Which means full exhaust, Adjustable top mounts, reflash, etc, would all be legal to get an STI started. Scott???? Would a stage 1 Vishnu (or equivalent) tuned STi be legal in STU? As long as boost remained untouched it should be fine right? Is that an option with the XEDE? I'm not entirely sure what no boost mod means. My dilema is that I don;t want to run a class by myself this year, that would be a drag, and I don't see anyone else around that would run more than a few events. Tony (Silver EVO) would probably be the only other regular. And I'm not even sure how many events he will make.
I really am leaning towards staying in NAS though, I really enjoyed the few street tire races I had last year.

Help

Heres a good summary I found:

Reflecting the success of the ST concept both nationally and regionally, the two supplemental classes were developed as the next logical steps in the progression of this category. Variants of one or both of these classes are already being offered in several regions across the country.

STS2 will follow the STS rule set, but the eligible cars will be restricted to two-seaters with engine displacements of 1.8 liters or less. This class will provide a home for a number of popular vehicles, including the Honda CRX and del Sol, Mazda RX7 (non-turbo, '79-'92) and Miata ('90-'97), Toyota MR2 ('85-'89), as well as other similar vehicles. STS category rules 14.1 to 14.10 apply. Further, as in STS, only original equipment viscous limited slip differentials are legal in STS-2. Excluded vehicles include Lotus (all), Mazda Miata (99+), and Toyota MR2 ('91-'95 and '00+).

STU will follow the STX rule set, but will raise the displacement limit for otherwise STX-legal vehicles to 3.1 liters for forced induction and to unlimited displacement for natural aspiration. To accommodate the greater power of these vehicles, restrictions on wheel width are lifted and the maximum tire width will be increased to 275 for front or rear wheel drive vehicles (but will remain at 245 for AWD vehicles). Other than these limited exceptions, the STX rule set as described in 14.11 applies. This class extends the Street Touring concept to cars including the Audi S4, BMW M3 (E36), Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge Neon SRT-4, Ford Mustang, Mazda RX-8, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. 8, Pontiac Firebird, Pontiac GTO, Subaru WRX STi, Volvo S60 R, and Toyota Supra. Excluded vehicles include the E46 M3 and the E39 M5.

[sperry]

The rules regarding "no boost" mods, is just that... boost must be stock. Of course, some things effect boost, like a freer flowing exhaust, but that okay. You just can't up the boost with a boost controller. In fact there's still an issue with reflashes, in that it's very difficult to prove the map you have loaded isn't touching boost without having an independant datalogger attached to the car to record boost pressure.

At far as the STi in STU, I already see a huge issue on the horizon. Boost creep. You're not allowed to touch the turbo for porting, so adding that exhaust will mean you're gonna be creeping. 'Course everyone else in STU is gonna be bitching that the STi has a ton of boost, which it true as long as it's not blowing up the motor.

STU seems like a cool class, but this 1st year of it is going to be nuts. I know I wouldn't run it, because it'll be pretty expensive to build a car for the class and you're shooting at a moving target. It'd suck to buy some expensive parts only to have to take 'em off and sell them because a FastTrack comes out making it illegal. Which reminds me, I've got a hood scoop to take off.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Which reminds me, I've got a hood scoop to take off.

What, your hood scoop is illegal now?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

What, your hood scoop is illegal now?

The bigger STi one I put on there after last season is. I thought I'd be in NSM, but since I'm sticking to STX, I gotta pull it.

[dknv]

According to the nasioc post, pax:
STU 0.827

[MikeSTI]

Well I guess my question would be who will get to run in STU if the number is low and the people in the class are STi and EVO I might run there because im not A-Stock anymore? Please help me

[MikeSTI]

I guess I should have read Matts post first

Hey Matt if we dont have anyone that has all the mods I run with you

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

The bigger STi one I put on there after last season is. I thought I'd be in NSM, but since I'm sticking to STX, I gotta pull it.

That's retarded. It's a hood scoop, people... untwist your panties.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by dknv

According to the nasioc post, pax:
STU 0.827

I wonder how they came up with that? I'm not sure Nasioc is a valid source though...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

That's retarded. It's a hood scoop, people... untwist your panties.

Actually, it could make a significant difference... on a hot day in the desert that extra air over the intercooler really does help keep the power up.