Next season's autocross classes

[STIwish]

I havent told many people, but my goal is to run every Reno SCCA event next season, but as you know, I wont be doing it in my WRX, as it is long gone now I will be prepping an S13 240sx over the winter to compete this next year, as of right now, the plans for an engine swap in it are going to wait until i fully mod the suspension, meaning coil overs, bushings, strut bars.. so on and so forth. I really have no idea what class I would be running in, any ideas? Ill be on street tires.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by STIwish

I havent told many people, but my goal is to run every Reno SCCA event next season, but as you know, I wont be doing it in my WRX, as it is long gone now I will be prepping an S13 240sx over the winter to compete this next year, as of right now, the plans for an engine swap in it are going to wait until i fully mod the suspension, meaning coil overs, bushings, strut bars.. so on and so forth. I really have no idea what class I would be running in, any ideas? Ill be on street tires.

Anything with an engine swap is in Street Mod... however before you do the swap, you might be able to run in a "slower" class. You'll have to check the rules once they come out.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Even in Street Modified you can only swap engines from the same manufacturer and only if it was a factory option for that particular car...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Even in Street Modified you can only swap engines from the same manufacturer and only if it was a factory option for that particular car...

Hmmm... well I'm assuming and SR20DE motor swap, which is a Nissan motor into a Nissan car, but I don't believe it was ever offered as an option in the US for that car. Are you sure it has to be a "factory option"?

If Austin's right, that S13 is looking like E-Modified I think.

[STIwish]

heh, actually, no, not the SR20DET, im actually thinking RB25DET.. which is not a factory option on the 240 by any means.. im going STI and Porsche hunting.. but ive never even heard of E-modified

[tysonK]

there is all kinds of stuff in EM....e mod.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Street Modified Rules:

D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems, etc) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:


1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer (Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Datsun) will be recognised as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level (Ford/Volvo, Renault/Nissan Chrysler/Mercedes) are not recognised as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular model. (e.g. Eagle Talon available with either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler or Mitsubishi).

Maximum engine displacement:

Forced induction -
3.0L (OHC engines)
4.0L (pusrod engines)
Normally aspirated -
6.0L
Rotary engines (all) -
1.5L

[STIwish]

I could get away with an SR20 then, thats good.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by STIwish

I could get away with an SR20 then, thats good.

Was the SR20 offered as a motor in the US 240s? I thought it was strictly a JDM motor. SCCA rules only recognize "factory" items as items that were installed by the manufacturer for the US market. According the the rule that Austin posted, JDM swaps are a no-no.

[STIwish]

eh, er... ill badge it as a 180sx and then ill be good to go.

[STIwish]

It doesnt say anything about US vs. JDM, it simply says it has to be from the same company and an engine that was originally in the car... which the SR20DET was in the 240 in Japan... I asked on some of the 240 boards and most of the guys with swaps are running street mod

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Seems like that would be legal... SM also allows all Stock and Street Prepared rules... and SP allows updating/backdating of parts including entire engines.

Street Prepared:

14.1 Authorized Modifications

3. Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if

(a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken,
(b) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes).
The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged.

I guess a Japanese-market-only version of your US-market car would just be another model that you could take parts from.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I guess a Japanese-market-only version of your US-market car would just be another model that you could take parts from.

As far as the "the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes)." part of the rule.... the 240SX Turbo isn't even listed, let alone "on the same line", and that's because it was never sold in the US.

The rules seem overly vague. If you really can do swaps with non US versions, what's to stop me from dropping a 22b motor in my Impreza L? They're both Imprezas right? SCCA had to go out of their way to explicily class the STi and WRX's as *not* Imprezas to prevent that! However, they never when and said the 22b isn't an Impreza, right?

Along the same lines, what's to stop me from swapping in a complete C5-R drivetrain into a 1990 Corvette and totally destroying SM2? Hell the C5-R was just another "model" of the Corvette, right... granted it was a limited run of 4 hand built race cars for ALMS, but it was still a "Factory Vette". Shit, John Force's funny car is a "Mustang", does that mean you can drop that motor in you car, Austin? If you're going to allow other countries models, where do you draw the line? What if I wanted to put a Holden V8 in my Cavalier, would that be legal?

For every other class that restricts things by "models" and has the "update/backdate" rules, the cars are required to be "series produced with normal road touring equipment, capable of being licensed for normal road use in the United States, and normally sold and delivered through the manufacturer's retail sales outlets in the United States" (section 14, STREET PREPARED CATAGORY).

So what's the defining line for Street Mod? You can't update/backdate with non-factory-offered-in-the-US parts in any other classes, what makes SM different? Are we supposted to have production numbers for overseas cars so we can argue that it's mass-produced enough to count? I think if the SR20DET powered 240SX were to have made it to the States, it wouldn't have been classified as the same "model" as the N/A 240SX. It's the same difference as the 166hp Impreza 2.5RS and the 227hp Impreza WRX and the 300hp Impreza WRX STi. If I wanted to drop an STi motor in my car, I'm running in Modified, aren't I?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

The rules seem overly vague. If you really can do swaps with non US versions, what's to stop me from dropping a 22b motor in my Impreza L? They're both Imprezas right? SCCA had to go out of their way to explicily class the STi and WRX's as *not* Imprezas to prevent that! However, they never when and said the 22b isn't an Impreza, right?

I think you're right, and if you could get your hands on a 22b motor, you could drop it right into your WRX. Hell, if I had the money I could update my car to Cobra-R spec - 351c.i. motor with 300hp & I-don't-know-how-much torque straight from the factory, let alone if you free it up with good intake and exhaust.

Originally Posted by sperry

Along the same lines, what's to stop me from swapping in a complete C5-R drivetrain into a 1990 Corvette and totally destroying SM2? Hell the C5-R was just another "model" of the Corvette, right... granted it was a limited run of 4 hand built race cars for ALMS, but it was still a "Factory Vette". Shit, John Force's funny car is a "Mustang", does that mean you can drop that motor in you car, Austin? If you're going to allow other countries models, where do you draw the line? What if I wanted to put a Holden V8 in my Cavalier, would that be legal?

All I can say is any one of the above... WOULD KICK ASS!

[STIwish]

Hmmm.. if everyone else running the SR20DET swap is in SM in most regions, due to vague rules or not, i should be able to.

[Dean]

As an SM competitor for some time, I have spent a good deal of time with these rules...

My read is that the first sentance makes it very clear. Only the badge on the engine matters, not when, or for what it was produced.

If you want to drop a C5 engine into a Chevette, go for it, just don't modify the firewall, or much of anything else to do it!

The spirit of the SM rules are if you can bolt it on. or in without using a saws all and everything else still works, it's OK.

[STIwish]

Thanks for clearing that up Dean

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

My read is that the first sentance makes it very clear. Only the badge on the engine matters, not when, or for what it was produced.

If you want to drop a C5 engine into a Chevette, go for it, just don't modify the firewall, or much of anything else to do it!

I'm not by any means a rules nazi (and therefore don't really care), but your interpretation above doesn't seem to jive with what I read in the first sentence: "Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model." That sounds to me like the engine has got to be a unit that was at least an option for your model car. The C5 5.7L LS1 motor was obviously never an option for a 1969 Chevette, so therefore I don't see how it's legal according to the above rule.