Illegals are ruining autocross!! - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

MikeK · 2007-10-09, 05:38 PM

Today I was tooling around the motorsports forum on nasioc checking to see whether I can do a lighter subframe next year and still stay in SM ... and I discovered that my intercooler isn't actually legal in SM! It comes with a replacement bumper beam, which means I should have been in F-Prepared all year. (Actually it turns out that 99% of FMICs are illegal)

I just gave Scott a call to tell him I was going to disqualify myself before he gets the results posted, but he convinced me that technically I can't do that, since no one protested during the year so the results should stand.

No trophies in pax are affected, but Cory would move up to 2nd and Jason Copper to 3rd in SM (since Scott's car is in the same boat).

Thoughts/opinions? What should I do? What would you do?

Sorry everyone, it wasn't intentional!

On a related note, next year it would be me and Scott in FP on our street tyres ... in other words I should either get rid of the car over winter or just forget autox and focus on track days

Dean · 2007-10-09, 05:52 PM

16.1.i says you can modify or replace front fascias. I personally would assume that includes the bumper beam.

Has there actually been a ruling otherwise?

Cheating implies intent. I don't believe you intended to cheat. And we could all clearly see your front mount, so it was within our purview to protest if we so chose.

Also, there is nothing wrong with FP. We could all run there and ignore PAX. I'd be happy to.

dknv · 2007-10-09, 07:20 PM

It's my understanding that you cannot protest yourself. But as far as next year, street tyres are not valid for prepared and mod classes, right?

MikeK · 2007-10-09, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknv

But as far as next year, street tyres are not valid for prepared and mod classes, right?

They aren't illegal, there is just no "T" handicap factor

wrxkidid · 2007-10-09, 07:54 PM

so next year in SM theres no tire modifer? im screwed.

Dean · 2007-10-09, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxkidid

so next year in SM theres no tire modifer? im screwed.

SM is not modified. T will still be around in some form for S, SP and SM.

wrxkidid · 2007-10-09, 08:10 PM

Thank you baby Jesus.

sperry · 2007-10-09, 08:54 PM

I'm going to be illegal in FP as well... if I ever get a splitter on the front of the car. Somehow, only airdams are legal in Prepared, splitters are not.

But as far as the SM thing this season... I don't think the few pounds missing off the front bumper of Mike's car would have slowed him down enough to have changed the results.

And it's not like Jason couldn't have taken 4th from me just by showing up one extra weekend.

Hey Mike, since you're gonna be in FP, you wanna buy my ALK off me? It's been sitting in a bag for 3 years in hopes the autocross rules would change, but I've got the SM-legal offset bushings in there now, so there's no reason to take 'em out.

Dean · 2007-10-09, 09:11 PM

OK, apparently fascia only applies to the bumper cover which I'm not sure I agree with.

It looks like one option is to take the stock beam and cut/bash the snot out of it until it clears, only removing 1lb or less.

And I thought we were all driving ES Miatas next year anyway...

sybir · 2007-10-09, 11:02 PM

If Mike passes on the ALK, I'll take it, Scott. You have the subframe spacers for it?

MPREZIV · 2007-10-10, 06:36 AM

I agree that it's a bit of a strange rule, but as mentioned before, you didn't CHEAT, (i.e. with intent, which is the definitive factor IMO) and even from someone who would benefit from your exclusion, I say you earned your place, and didn't really have any unfair advantage from a mechanical/performance standpoint. It's a bit superficial as far as I'm concerned.

You do earn a couple points for being honest too!

cody · 2007-10-10, 07:23 AM

Oh sure, you get away with cheating and then rub it in our face as soon as we can't protest you about it!

dknv · 2007-10-10, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

...And I thought we were all driving ES Miatas next year anyway...

sounds like fun!

MikeK · 2007-10-10, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybir

If Mike passes on the ALK, I'll take it, Scott. You have the subframe spacers for it?

It's all yours.

sperry · 2007-10-10, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybir

If Mike passes on the ALK, I'll take it, Scott. You have the subframe spacers for it?

Yep. I gots the whole deal. They're the "comfort" bushings as well, so the softer of the three duros they sell. PM me, we'll set up the sale!

2007-10-09, 05:38 PM	#1
MikeK Captain Turbo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Reno Posts: 3,318 Car: 05 STi	Illegals are ruining autocross!! Today I was tooling around the motorsports forum on nasioc checking to see whether I can do a lighter subframe next year and still stay in SM ... and I discovered that my intercooler isn't actually legal in SM! It comes with a replacement bumper beam, which means I should have been in F-Prepared all year. (Actually it turns out that 99% of FMICs are illegal) I just gave Scott a call to tell him I was going to disqualify myself before he gets the results posted, but he convinced me that technically I can't do that, since no one protested during the year so the results should stand. No trophies in pax are affected, but Cory would move up to 2nd and Jason Copper to 3rd in SM (since Scott's car is in the same boat). Thoughts/opinions? What should I do? What would you do? Sorry everyone, it wasn't intentional! On a related note, next year it would be me and Scott in FP on our street tyres ... in other words I should either get rid of the car over winter or just forget autox and focus on track days

2007-10-09, 05:52 PM	#2
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	16.1.i says you can modify or replace front fascias. I personally would assume that includes the bumper beam. Has there actually been a ruling otherwise? Cheating implies intent. I don't believe you intended to cheat. And we could all clearly see your front mount, so it was within our purview to protest if we so chose. Also, there is nothing wrong with FP. We could all run there and ignore PAX. I'd be happy to. __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

2007-10-09, 07:54 PM	#5
wrxkidid EJ205 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Incline Village, NV Posts: 1,232 Car: 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. 5.7l Class: None :/ Cory, just put a 4g63 in it.	so next year in SM theres no tire modifer? im screwed. __________________ Mosey down the road.

2007-10-09, 08:10 PM	#7
wrxkidid EJ205 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Incline Village, NV Posts: 1,232 Car: 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. 5.7l Class: None :/ Cory, just put a 4g63 in it.	Thank you baby Jesus. __________________ Mosey down the road.

2007-10-09, 08:54 PM	#8
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	I'm going to be illegal in FP as well... if I ever get a splitter on the front of the car. Somehow, only airdams are legal in Prepared, splitters are not. But as far as the SM thing this season... I don't think the few pounds missing off the front bumper of Mike's car would have slowed him down enough to have changed the results. And it's not like Jason couldn't have taken 4th from me just by showing up one extra weekend. Hey Mike, since you're gonna be in FP, you wanna buy my ALK off me? It's been sitting in a bag for 3 years in hopes the autocross rules would change, but I've got the SM-legal offset bushings in there now, so there's no reason to take 'em out. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2007-10-09, 07:20 PM	#3
dknv EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 39n53, 119w90 Posts: 2,698 Car: RX-8 Class: CS maybe	It's my understanding that you cannot protest yourself. But as far as next year, street tyres are not valid for prepared and mod classes, right?

2007-10-09, 09:11 PM	#9
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	OK, apparently fascia only applies to the bumper cover which I'm not sure I agree with. It looks like one option is to take the stock beam and cut/bash the snot out of it until it clears, only removing 1lb or less. And I thought we were all driving ES Miatas next year anyway... __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

2007-10-09, 11:02 PM	#10
sybir The Don Real Name: Aaron Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sacramento Posts: 3,097 Car: '97 Legacy / '05 FXT Class: low	If Mike passes on the ALK, I'll take it, Scott. You have the subframe spacers for it? __________________ Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic.

2007-10-10, 06:36 AM	#11
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	I agree that it's a bit of a strange rule, but as mentioned before, you didn't CHEAT, (i.e. with intent, which is the definitive factor IMO) and even from someone who would benefit from your exclusion, I say you earned your place, and didn't really have any unfair advantage from a mechanical/performance standpoint. It's a bit superficial as far as I'm concerned. You do earn a couple points for being honest too! __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2007-10-10, 07:23 AM	#12
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	Oh sure, you get away with cheating and then rub it in our face as soon as we can't protest you about it! __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo.

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