Presidential Poll

[AtomicLabMonkey]

All right, since today is an election day... err, somewhere else... let's have a poll ourselves. Who would you elect President?

[sperry]

Colin Powell will be the next good US President, if his chances aren't ruined by Rebublican Party in-fighting. But 1st we'll have to get through 4 years of Democrats, cuz I don't think Bush will be re-elected (unless they "coincidentally" happen to find large caches of WMDs in Iraq shortly before the election). Oh and there's that whole appocalypse thing we'll need to survive too.

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by sperry

But 1st we'll have to get through 4 years of Democrats, cuz I don't think Bush will be re-elected (unless they "coincidentally" happen to find large caches of WMDs in Iraq shortly before the election). Oh and there's that whole appocalypse thing we'll need to survive too.

why do you think the US is still there....maybe there close to finally planting I mean finding those WMD, but it would have to be done in Sept. or Oct to make it stick before the election.

[Beer Goddess]

Colin Powell would never get the Republican nomination for president- he's not crooked enough!!

[STIwish]

Thats true, but why do you care? Arent you a demoncrat, being a tree hugging hippy and all?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

why do you think the US is still there....maybe there close to finally planting I mean finding those WMD, but it would have to be done in Sept. or Oct to make it stick before the election.

We're still in Iraq because we haven't ensured the new gov't there will be extremely US friendly yet. Why do you think we're fighting against open elections? We still have to make sure that all the candidated for Iraq's new president/cabinet are all big supporters of the US.

[Kevin M]

I'm sticking with Dean. He's obviously not somebody's puppet if he's that passionate about winning the race. His puppetmaster would have written a much more humble speech.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I'm sticking with Dean. He's obviously not somebody's puppet if he's that passionate about winning the race. His puppetmaster would have written a much more humble speech.

There is the distinct possibility that he's a pupet and a retard.

[Dean]

I feel like I am at Costco, or Walmart durring the holidays and I have to pick between 100 really long lines...

They all suck! This is much worse than 4 years ago...

[AtomicLabMonkey]

IMHO, I think Kerry or Edwards are much better choices than Al Gore was 4 years ago. Or maybe I'm just leaning to the left as I get older...

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

IMHO, I think Kerry or Edwards are much better choices than Al Gore was 4 years ago.

Yes, but Gore almost won, I'm not sure any of the Democrats really have a chance at this point. They are to fragmented with no obvious leader. It will be difficult to elect a Democrat when the party can't even bring an obvious contender to the ring. These guys are sparing partners at best.

[Nick Koan]

I'd vote for Clark in a heartbeat if I thought he stood a chance. Dean is too... overhyped for my taste at the moment.

Kucinich or Kerry seems to be a little more along the same lines as me. Fiscally conservative but socially liberial.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

Yes, but Gore almost won, I'm not sure any of the Democrats really have a chance at this point. They are to fragmented with no obvious leader. It will be difficult to elect a Democrat when the party can't even bring an obvious contender to the ring. These guys are sparing partners at best.

I think that for now that's true, in a few months when it's finally time to nominate a single candidate all of these guys will have to join together in support the nominee to win the general election. They've at least been talking about it everywhere they go, that the number one issue is to oust GWB in the fall. To win in November they'll have to learn how to close ranks and get behind the nominee for real, not just in spirit. The republicans have been good at that for the last few years, democrats seem like they haven't quite completely learned yet.

The thing that has pricked up my ears the most about anyone running is Kerry's proposal for the goverment to establish (and actively fund) hydrogen power research.

[Beer Goddess]

I think that to say none of these guys has a chance is a little premature. If the election was tomorrow that might be true, but as the field narrows the other remaining candidate will hopefully gain support, that is if the democrats can learn to fall in line. (I agree with lab Monkey, the republicans are much better at that) Besides the dems don't officially nominate a candidate until August.

I don't hold a lot of stock in polls, but one poll over the weekend showed that if the election were held tomoorow, Bush would beat Kerry by a small margin. Another poll showed that Kerry would actually beat Bush by a small margin. So there is a possibility that enough people are concerned enough about the energy crisis, health care, and the economy to oust Bush.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

So far we have John Edwards leading "suck it" by a nose...

[Dean]

I had to go vote for "suck it" just to even it up...

[tysonK]

Hilary Clinton,,,but I voted for Edwards.

[dknv]

Mr. Sterling.
o nevermind, that was just a tv show.

[sperry]

This thread sucks.

Anyone that thinks the President actually makes a difference is naive. This country is governed by special intrest groups and rich white men that work from the shadows to protect their own rich white asses. The President doesn't really have enough power to make a difference anymore, because you have to be such a "team player" (aka puppet) just to get a nomination from your party. So pick *any* one of the them, it matters not. It will take *serious* changes in our election process (i.e. abolishing the 2 party system, and pooling *all* campaign finances for *all* candidates) before we have a President with some balls that can make a difference (like FDR, or Lincoln, or Kennedy, etc). For now we're stuck with the Presidential equivalent of Britney Spears, a person manufactured by Corporate America to help them make more money.

Damn I'm jaded today.

[STIwish]

True wisdom in that post

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Damn I'm jaded today.

Yeah you are. What you said is incorrect; the President and Congress do have a ton of power, that's why lobbyists/special interest groups spend so much money and time trying to influence them. What it sounded like you were trying to say is that anyone who gets to that level is corrupted already by the time they get there, which I would agree usually appears to be the case these days. The two party system isn't helping matters either. The problem with taking all campaign finances and dividing them up equally among everyone running is that then you'll have 10 gazillion crackpots signing up to run, who aren't serious and just want to see the country and have some fun on someone else's dollar.

[MikeSTI]

The problem with taking all campaign finances and dividing them up equally among everyone running is that then you'll have 10 gazillion crackpots signing up to run, who aren't serious and just want to see the country and have some fun on someone else's dollar.[/quote]

i would run my slogan "I will fix everything that is broke with the peoples united help" as if you could unite the people

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Yeah you are. What you said is incorrect; the President and Congress do have a ton of power, that's why lobbyists/special interest groups spend so much money and time trying to influence them. What it sounded like you were trying to say is that anyone who gets to that level is corrupted already by the time they get there, which I would agree usually appears to be the case these days. The two party system isn't helping matters either. The problem with taking all campaign finances and dividing them up equally among everyone running is that then you'll have 10 gazillion crackpots signing up to run, who aren't serious and just want to see the country and have some fun on someone else's dollar.

My point was that's it's impossible to get a President that can actually make a difference. You simply can't get elected in this country unless you're willing to support the status quo, because tons of seriously rich corperations and people have already purchased the gov't and continue to use their money to stop change.

Significant campaign finance reform is simply one way to help correct the situation. Of course, you can't just let anyone run on a evenly split campaign bank, due to the emmence waste of money ('course I'd consider the current campaign expenitured emmence wastes as well).

Try this: Require all candidates to have a "party". Your party must have 50,000 (or some logical arbitary number large enough to prevent crack-pots) members. Once you've got enough members, your party can run, and will recieve their fair share of the campaign finance pool.

Or, more simply, limit the total amount anyone can spend on a campaign to say $1 million, and don't bother with dividing it all up.

My point is, most all of the potential Democrat nominiees are just as good as any of the others... but the Dems will have to pick one to rally behind in order to beat Bush. I'd rather live in a nation where they all have a shot at winning. I wouldn't have a problem with a President elected by only 30% of the popular vote, if that's still the majority. The CA governor recall election may have been full of yahoo's running, but at least there was a choice! The presidential election only allows me to pick from 2 yahoos.

[Beer Goddess]

Originally Posted by sperry

This country is governed by special intrest groups and rich white men that work from the shadows to protect their own rich white asses. The President doesn't really have enough power to make a difference anymore, because you have to be such a "team player" (aka puppet) just to get a nomination from your party. So pick *any* one of the them, it matters not. It will take *serious* changes in our election process (i.e. abolishing the 2 party system, and pooling *all* campaign finances for *all* candidates) before we have a President with some balls that can make a difference (like FDR, or Lincoln, or Kennedy, etc). For now we're stuck with the Presidential equivalent of Britney Spears, a person manufactured by Corporate America to help them make more money.

Damn I'm jaded today.

You are quite jaded, and I do agree with you to a great extent. But whose fault is it? Lobbyists can't directly buy your vote. We, that is the American people, are so gullible. We tend to vote for the guy with the flashiest ads and the most photogenic smile. (Look at CA's new governator.) Lobbyists can buy that. I know I am naive and idealistic , but if we looked at voting records and refused to reelect people who are clearly more concerned with their next campaign war chest, we might change things. I do however have little faith that this will happen any time soon.

We also have had numerous opportunities to elect third party candidates. I know that they are usually not-mainstream (but isn't that the point). However, if we really want to buck the two party system, we need to vote for third party candidates. Too often I have heard people say, "I am not going to vote for him/her because she won't win." Well obviously not if you don't vote for them. We are so concerned about being on the winning team even if it means nothing changes. Even if third party candidates aren't elected, they may force the two parties to change their ways to avoid losing votes. Lobbyists don't even want to buy a loser.

Though I don't believe the answer to all the problems with our political system lies in the democratic pool this election season, there are some less greusome choices. Ex: While in the senate, Kerry voted for increasing CAFE standards which auto manufacturers and labor unions don't like. He made that decision knowing he was risking labor support which is important source of money and endorsements. Edwards has also vowed not to take money from PACs. At least these two seem to be less bought and payed for than some other candidates and the incumbent.

Excuse my naive, liberal ramblings.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Try this: Require all candidates to have a "party". Your party must have 50,000 (or some logical arbitary number large enough to prevent crack-pots) members. Once you've got enough members, your party can run, and will recieve their fair share of the campaign finance pool.

Or, more simply, limit the total amount anyone can spend on a campaign to say $1 million, and don't bother with dividing it all up.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I doubt the first option would hold up to legal challenges... requiring all campaign donations to be pooled means by definition that someone couldn't raise money on their own; so anyone not selected to be part of the pool is for all intents and purposes excluded from running for a national office. Requiring someone to be from a "party" to get a share of the pool means arbitrary definitions like you said, and I'd venture to guess that arbitrary restrictions like that on someone's right to run for political office would be ruled un-constitutional.

The second option might be a step in the right direction but could probably be weaseled around by someone with enough money, or who had "friends" with enough money... like a "friend" in each state who just happened to set up a state-wide calling campaign to tell people how much they liked that particular candidate.