Go economy!

[sperry]

IGT stock is the lowest it's been since the big dip we took in '04... and our all-time high was just 5 months ago. Nothing like stock options that are worth negative dollars!

Fuel is bouncing around the $5/gal price.

And my only cool neighbor appears to have abandoned his house... the lawn is a foot high, dying from lack of water, weeds are growing everywhere, and there's a note from his mortgage company on the front door.

Good thing we got that tax rebate a few weeks back... it staved off the recession like gangbusters!

[Nick Koan]

So the answer is 7 years. It takes 7 years for Bush to screw up the economy.

[moose]

Actually, the economy was starting to decline during the Reagan years. I will have to find the website later.

[Nick Koan]

Yeah, but Clinton was able to stabilize it for a few years.

[moose]

Tushey

[sperry]

So what you're saying is that conservative "trickle-down" economic policy runs up massive debt and hurts everyone except the people that are already rich, while progressive liberal economic policy, while expensive in terms of taxes on the rich, promotes growth and stability for a much broader base of our citizens.

Gee, who would have thought that Robin Hood was right?

[Dean]

Congress is as much if not significantly more to blame than Bush. They are the ones who legislate, tax and spend...

As an avid CNBC watcher, I can tell you that yes, the economy has slowed, but so far GDP has remained positive. (Technical definition of recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP)

Don't get me wrong, slow downs hurt, but recessions are way worse.

Options and other investment in the company you work for are always sketchy. All the media hype about Enron and Bear Stearns employees losing their jobs and their retirement fail to mention that the later is their own fault.

Having any significant level of investment in the company you work for is quite a risky strategy. If the company even just does poorly, you can lose your job as well as much of your investment.

A diversified portfolio (not an index fund IMHO) remains the first rule In investing.

Another is don't be a pig, take profits and reallocate/balance your portfolio regularly.

People love to ride their winners well into the danger zone and get pissed when they pull back or worse, plummet. The same holds for stock options.

My brother is a great example. He worked for Oracle during the Dot Com bubble and rather than exercising his options and paying off his house(s), he only did enough to add a pool and the rest became worthless in the bust.

I had a single stock that was up 40% in 4 months and likely headed for a double, but I just pulled almost all of that gain out as it had become too large a percentage of my portfolio. Investing is about discipline and not emotion. Don't think I am an investing genius though, I have many that are down, but overall, I am ahead of the averages which I am marginally happy about, but they and I are down YTD.

[wrxkidid]

I hate the stock market. My dad shoves it down my throat and so did my internship for the fall semester at Louis Navillier Investment Corp. But I did learn a lot about it.

What Louis taught me was to have a portfolio that is stable but also to have a few High risk investments that can either plummet and you lose money or skyrocket and you rake in the bank. But he always stressed that those high risk investments were only a small percentage of the portfolio, the rest were moderate to low risk investments. In a short period of time they dont necesarrily make you a bunch of money however if you pay attention and keep up with your investments in the long run you can make just as much money as one of the high riskers, it just takes a little while longer.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Congress is as much if not significantly more to blame than Bush. They are the ones who legislate, tax and spend...

As an avid CNBC watcher, I can tell you that yes, the economy has slowed, but so far GDP has remained positive. (Technical definition of recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative GDP)

Don't get me wrong, slow downs hurt, but recessions are way worse.

Options and other investment in the company you work for are always sketchy. All the media hype about Enron and Bear Stearns employees losing their jobs and their retirement fail to mention that the later is their own fault.

Having any significant level of investment in the company you work for is quite a risky strategy. If the company even just does poorly, you can lose your job as well as much of your investment.

A diversified portfolio (not an index fund IMHO) remains the first rule In investing.

Another is don't be a pig, take profits and reallocate/balance your portfolio regularly.

People love to ride their winners well into the danger zone and get pissed when they pull back or worse, plummet. The same holds for stock options.

My brother is a great example. He worked for Oracle during the Dot Com bubble and rather than exercising his options and paying off his house(s), he only did enough to add a pool and the rest became worthless in the bust.

I had a single stock that was up 40% in 4 months and likely headed for a double, but I just pulled almost all of that gain out as it had become too large a percentage of my portfolio. Investing is about discipline and not emotion. Don't think I am an investing genius though, I have many that are down, but overall, I am ahead of the averages which I am marginally happy about, but they and I are down YTD.

Great advice. I'll get IGT to start offering me stock options in Microsoft stock.

[wrxkidid]

Why not just invest in microsoft in your personal portfolio in stead of using money on IGTs stock options?

[knucklesplitter]

The last company I worked for gave out stock options as bonuses. I had $15k worth. Should have exercised the options and sold them the day I got them:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=R...urce=undefined

They are literally worthless paper now.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by wrxkidid

Why not just invest in microsoft in your personal portfolio in stead of using money on IGTs stock options?

I think people are forgetting what stock options are.

"Mr. Perry, IGT would like to offer you the option to buy our stock 5 years from now at today's price of $38/share"

"Gee thanks IGT, I hope 5 years from now when those options are vested, the stock is worth more than $38/share... 'cause today they're worth $28/share."

It's not like IGT is going to offer me the option to buy Microsoft stock, or like I can do anything with my IGT options before they're vested.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

I think people are forgetting what stock options are.

"Mr. Perry, IGT would like to offer you the option to buy our stock 5 years from now at today's price of $38/share"

"Gee thanks IGT, I hope 5 years from now when those options are vested, the stock is worth more than $38/share... 'cause today they're worth $28/share."

It's not like IGT is going to offer me the option to buy Microsoft stock, or like I can do anything with my IGT options before they're vested.

I understand how options work and was not claiming to know what your financial position is. I used to work with people who had the majority if not all of their 401K in the company stock. That is what I am saying was not a good practice. there are also people who either hold their options beyond when they vest/mature or exercise options and then hold the stock. Those are equally bad.

An option that has not yet vested is not an investment, it is a promise or a hope and should be treated as such, just like bonuses and to some extent dividends.

And if you think your company's stock is going down, nothing prevents you from shorting the stock against those options using the options as a hedge. If you are right, you make money on the short, if not, you exercise the options which cost you nothing and close the short position flat. Talk about a low risk option. A free covered short or long position is an investor's dream and it is legal.

[cody]

Scott, at least your employer is offering you some form of investment...

[JC]

I think you are forgetting that the reason IGTs stock is down is that you aren't working hard enough.

Honestly I'm more worried about the dollar having tanked. Aside from bringing more manufacturing to the US, it's bad news. Oh well, the solution is always the same, make more money.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

I understand how options work and was not claiming to know what your financial position is. I used to work with people who had the majority if not all of their 401K in the company stock. That is what I am saying was not a good practice. there are also people who either hold their options beyond when they vest/mature or exercise options and then hold the stock. Those are equally bad.

An option that has not yet vested is not an investment, it is a promise or a hope and should be treated as such, just like bonuses and to some extent dividends.

And if you think your company's stock is going down, nothing prevents you from shorting the stock against those options using the options as a hedge. If you are right, you make money on the short, if not, you exercise the options which cost you nothing and close the short position flat. Talk about a low risk option. A free covered short or long position is an investor's dream and it is legal.

I'm not bitching about IGT stock specifically, other than to use it as a reference that we're at a 4 year low only months after we hit our all-time high.

I could have picked any one of 100 other stocks as an example of the economy tanking.

And like JC said, I could have just pointed out the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by JC

I think you are forgetting that the reason IGTs stock is down is that you aren't working hard enough.

Honestly I'm more worried about the dollar having tanked. Aside from bringing more manufacturing to the US, it's bad news. Oh well, the solution is always the same, make more money.

My solution to the economy is to make it to the family farm, where we'll always be able to grow enough food, and store enough guns there to fend off the zombies.

Course, that's also my solution to the apocalypse, which may or may not be the same thing.

[Dean]

Mike could adopt us all and we could move to Australia.

LHD USDM Imprezas are probably Teh Hotness there.

[moose]

I say we should over run the gov't and make it a communist democracy.

[Bob Danger]

I have one thing to say!


Anarchy Is Order

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by JC

Oh well, the solution is always the same, make more money.

This is exactly what has been happening for the last few decades.

Americans demand cheap goods from other countries, which are paid for in US dollars. US dollars are valuable because of this vast trade, so other countries invest in dollars by buying up american debt. The trade keeps the value of the dollar high, which keeps the imports coming, etc etc.

When the terms on these loans come due, they are usually paid for with the next round of money coming in. Essentially the US has been surviving for decades on a never ending series of loans. And that is fine, as long as the rest of the world wants US dollars.

But if other countries start trading in euros instead of US dollars (which will happen if it keeps falling) then the US economy is done. The flow of "free" money into the US from investors like Japan and China will stop. Instead of paying these loans using new loans, what will happen when the supply of new money dries up?

This is essentially what happened to Argentina 8 years ago, and it had to start borrowing more money to pay old loans and society basically collapsed.

If OPEC switches to the euro then it will be twice as bad, because oil is the one import that america truly can't do without.

I think the management of this country has been very poor, and not just over the last 8 years either. Instead of reducing debt and dependence on imported oil, america has been increasing debt and using the money to finance military operations to secure that oil flow, a short term solution at best. You can't get voted in if the voters can't afford their retarded sized SUVs and monster trucks!

I know it sounds gloomy, but don't worry! I keep the cost of a one way airfare out of here in my bank account, just in case

[doubleurx]

I say we use all those stored up nukes and take what we need the old fashioned way!

[Kevin M]

I thought the old fashioned way to win wars was to be richer than our enemies/victims?

[Bob Danger]

It doesn't help that every dollar that the "Federal Bank", which is privately owned, prints is already taxed.

Democracy, and Capitalism do not work, they are great idea's just like communism was a great idea. The problem is that when you have a form of government that is fueled by money, only the people with money are going to be in control. Do you think they are going to give up that control? No, because power corrupts. People don't seem to realize how evil the government is, most of society is so brainwashed by the same people that are filling the bureaucrat's pockets, that they can't even tell anymore. The only way to get the masses to wake from their fairy tale lives, is by force.

Regardless we need a new form of government and a new economy. A government that has it's people's best interests in mind, where we work to improve the lives of our fellow man, not just ourselves. However this is not possible because people are bias, and corruptible. Therefor the only logical option is to create a government that can't be bias or corruptible, a government ran by a number of super computers with sophisticated AI. The only other option is see is world without any form of government, a world of complete anarchism.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Bob Danger

Therefor the only logical option is to create a government that can't be bias or corruptible, a government ran by a number of super computers with sophisticated AI.

We can call it "skynet"!