Engine Swap

[awoods177]

Hey guys,

It's been quite a while since I was on here last when I was asking advice to help my decision on buying a car, but a couple months ago I bought a 2001 RS and I'm loving it so far! I'm thinking about taking the next step with it and doing an engine swap, and was really hoping there was someone locally with the know how to help me do this. I would really like to do it myself vs having a shop do it because I feel like it'd be an awesome educational experience.

Anyways, if anyone around could drop some knowledge on me that'd be great!

Thanks,
Alex

[WRXlerate]

You might get a little more response if you mention what you were looking to swap in, 2.0 wrx or 2.5 STi...just engine or full drivetrain. I swapped a 2007 sti drivetrain with some bits from a 2005 into a 2002 wrx. There was one on here that did a wrx swap into a pre 02(not sure of the year) rs, I believe it was Ms Heatha. And she is no longer in town.
You can nearly do it all with subarutechinfo.com (wiring diagrams galore) and a hefty knowledge of cars in general. I've done umpteen swaps in just about every other import so I knew what I was getting into. The worst part is not accounting for the hundreds or sometimes into the thousands of $$ in misc parts you had no idea you needed. Check out NASIOC to see if anyone has done a writeup on your particular swap. You may find the little crap that would normally catch you off guard so you can be better prepared to tackle something like this. Best advice is have an extra deep wallet for the unexpected!! Some parts are not easily sourced and oem parts are spendy, just misplacing a nut for the rear suspension arm will set you back around $10.

[Kevin M]

Having done a couple Subaru swaps, my advice is this- don't even consider it without having a complete donor car. Not a front clip, not what somebody tells you is everything you need- one whole car. Even if it's wrecked, you'll know by what's broken exactly what you'll need to replace. Then it's just a matter of taking things apart and putting them back together, with the possible addition of wiring. I'd highly recommend buying a pre-merged harness for your application, or sending all the wiring to someone who has done it many times. It's well worth the cost to not have to learn how to trace out and splice wiring, not to mention the hassle.

[WRXlerate]

^^+2
I wish I would have had a whole car. And the wiring was a huge hassle, I'm glad I had something else to drive.

[awoods177]

All good info thanks guys! I want to do a 2.5 so and STi. I was planning on getting a full donor car no matter what because I'd like to do full tranny/engine/dash swap...pretty much dump an STi into the RS body.

Any places that are good to source donor cars?

[Dean]

The other thing a bunch of us would probably tell you is that if you really want STI power, sell the RS and get an STI. It will be cheaper in the long and probably short run.

Only take on a swap if you feel so strongly about the old body style that you feel you must upgrade regardless of cost. You will never recoup your costs in time and materials unless you get a free donor not to mention the insurance and licensing hassles associated with a swap.

Many swaps are doomed before they start and become a huge money pit...

Not trying to discourage you, just trying to inject some truisms about swaps. Just because you can put a Ferrari engine in a Jeep (Bill Harrah) doesn't make it a good idea or a good result.

[100_Percent_Juice]

I'd wait for Gus to total his out.










Just saying...

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by Dean

The other thing a bunch of us would probably tell you is that if you really want STI power, sell the RS and get an STI. It will be cheaper in the long and probably short run.

Only take on a swap if you feel so strongly about the old body style that you feel you must upgrade regardless of cost. You will never recoup your costs in time and materials unless you get a free donor not to mention the insurance and licensing hassles associated with a swap.

Many swaps are doomed before they start and become a huge money pit...

Not trying to discourage you, just trying to inject some truisms about swaps. Just because you can put a Ferrari engine in a Jeep (Bill Harrah) doesn't make it a good idea or a good result.

Actually at this point, if you can do the heavy lifting yourself, it's still cheaper to build a swapped GC. A good, clean '04 STi is still well over $10k, a wrecked one is little more than half that and a clean GC/GM/GF can be had for $3k, though not necessarily a natural born RS.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Actually at this point, if you can do the heavy lifting yourself, it's still cheaper to build a swapped GC. A good, clean '04 STi is still well over $10k, a wrecked one is little more than half that and a clean GC/GM/GF can be had for $3k, though not necessarily a natural born RS.

Not sure you can really do it for under $10 in hard costs, but you still get a car that you might have insurance or registration issues with along with any issues arising from any kludging you might have done during the swap with a resale value probably well under your investment.

There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it is a practical reality.

[WRXlerate]

There are wrecked 04 stis out there for around 7k?!? I have never found one.
Keep an eye out on craigslist for a wrecked one, if you still decide you want to go through with it. If you have a friend with a trailer and don't mind doing a weekend trip you will have a lot more success at finding one, possibly in Oregon or Socal. Last time I checked a wrecked, fair mileage (around 50k mi) 04 sti could be had for about $10k. In my opinion, doing it under $10k would be difficult unless you stumbled on a great deal.
The insurance I haven't had any issues with, as technically in my case the parts were all out of a newer wrx and since mine already had a turbo and such they didn't make a big deal out of it. As far as registration and DMV, I've been told that as long as it will still pass smog and the engine is out of a newer model car you will be ok, you can never put an older engine into a newer car. I would give them a call just to verify.
And Dean is definitely right about never seeing a return on your investment.

[awoods177]

Well, one of my main reasons for doing a swap was because I wanted to use the experience to learn more about how everything in a car does what it does, and because I thought it would be cheaper to do a swap than buy one outright. Also, as far as insurance goes I didn't even think about it but why would you even bother telling them you did a swap? Same with the dmv...legal issues or what?

I never really expected to see a return on it...it's not an investment but rather a project.

[Dean]

Just to clarify. On insurance. Unless you tell them and get them to give you a fixed value policy or effectively pay for a STI policy or possibly more, they will only ever pay you off on the older car's value. And, unless you tell them you significantly increased the HP of the car, you might get in trouble if you make a claim and they find out. Do you really want to risk not being covered in the event of an major accident wit injuries, and/or possibly being charged with insurance fraud to boot? Not saying it will happen, but it might.

Some might not even want to ensure a swapped car.

On registration, you just never know with SMOG checks/inspections what they are going to do. I doubt you could get a swapped car registered in CA, but you might.

[WRXlerate]

Good luck on the flat rate policy, I couldn't find anyone to give me one. And I could see them not insuring it if you told them, my current company won't insure a lifted pickup truck, lol. But they didn't even seem to care when I mentioned my swap. It could go 10 different ways, I'd probably make some phone calls to insurance and dmv before shopping for a donor car.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by Dean

Just to clarify. On insurance. Unless you tell them and get them to give you a fixed value policy or effectively pay for a STI policy or possibly more, they will only ever pay you off on the older car's value. And, unless you tell them you significantly increased the HP of the car, you might get in trouble if you make a claim and they find out. Do you really want to risk not being covered in the event of an major accident wit injuries, and/or possibly being charged with insurance fraud to boot? Not saying it will happen, but it might.

Some might not even want to ensure a swapped car.

On registration, you just never know with SMOG checks/inspections what they are going to do. I doubt you could get a swapped car registered in CA, but you might.

It's easy in CA if you use all stock parts, no mods. DMV engine swap rules are simple- if OBDII works correctly and all emissions equipment for the engine going in is present, you're good to go.

I've never seen a report anywhere of an insurance company giving anyone grief over an engine swap either.

[knucklesplitter]

Originally Posted by Dean

Just to clarify. On insurance. Unless you tell them and get them to give you a fixed value policy or effectively pay for a STI policy or possibly more, they will only ever pay you off on the older car's value. And, unless you tell them you significantly increased the HP of the car, you might get in trouble if you make a claim and they find out. Do you really want to risk not being covered in the event of an major accident wit injuries, and/or possibly being charged with insurance fraud to boot? Not saying it will happen, but it might.

Some might not even want to ensure a swapped car.

On registration, you just never know with SMOG checks/inspections what they are going to do. I doubt you could get a swapped car registered in CA, but you might.

Good point about insurance, but I don't think the increased hp is an issue.

I know of at least one 06 WRX swap into an RS in CA. He upgraded to VF39, STI intercooler, stage-2.5 tune, and he just passed CA smog, despite going to the smog ref. for other reasons besides the swap and mods.

I think the 500lbs weight savings would be worth the trouble and/or expense.

[IheartSTI]

I have done a complete sti swap into a 03 wrx and I will agree that it is most important to have a donor car. I picked up a 05 sti with aide impact for about 5k. I needed a few new parts but the car was in good
Condition. My swap included everything even the body parts so I will be the first to admit it's no day job. It is not to hard if you know how to work on cars in general. Having all the right tools is also important. If this is your fist project don't even bother jumping into this. I will be the first to admit that a swapped rs would be great but it's not something that can be done fast. If you decide to do the swap let me know and I can lend a hand or give guidence. Good luck

[Dean]

I am not an insurance agent, but the insurance on a 2.5i is different than a WRX is different from an STI and it is not just collision and comp I bet.

Turning a 170HP car into a 300HP rocket is not your average mod and unless you are also swapping all the safety equipment, they would probably be within their rights to void a policy.

All I am suggesting is that you investigate the situation before going forward.

[awoods177]

thanks everyone for the input...I definitely dont expect this to be a quick process at all haha. I think I'm gonna talk to the insurance company bout it, and then start looking for a donor car. oh and I dont have to worry bout emissions tests cause of where I live so thats sweet. The only problem I forsee is having a place to work on this, and store it while its being worked on. College living isnt exactly ideal for storing cars and parts