sti oil cooler

[IheartSTI]

I spun a rod bearing on my last motor so I needed to buy oil cooler. I decided to buy a sandwich plate and make my own oil cooler that would be more efficient. I was told by the company I bought the sandwich plate it would mate from the block to an oil filter. This is not the case. It comes with one 20mm x 1.5 fitting to mount on the block or can be used to adapt to a filter but not both. Apparently by adapt directly to block they meant to stock oil cooler. So now the dilemma is return all the oil cooler parts, spend a extra $300 bucks for a stock oil cooler and adapt from there or lastly find a 20mm 1.5 male to male nipple. (I can’t find a supplier thus far). So does anybody have any ideas that I might not have thought of or offer any solution. Does anyone have a stock sti oil cooler that has not been used on a blown motor? Please help

[sperry]

By "stock oil cooler" do you mean this:



or this:



You should not remove the top part, even if you're building something like the lower part. But if you spun a bearing, DO NOT REUSE the stock water/oil heat exchanger (above part). It is likely full of bearing bits that will ruin your new motor. You seem to know that already, but I mention it because I learned it the hard way.

On my racecar, I've got the following setup:

Canton Remote Filter Adapter (CAN22597)
Canton Remote Filter Mount (CAN22625)
Fluidyne 11x8x2" Oil Cooler (DB-30120)
-10AN steel braided lines and Earls fittings

You can kinda see the cooler and remote oil filter in this picture (cooler is on the passenger side between the intercooler and radiator, oil filter is in front of the broken wheel):


I still have the stock oil cooler/heat exchanger. It's good to keep because it mixes the heat between the coolant and the oil... since coolant heats up faster on cold days, it helps get the oil temps up more quickly. Speaking of oil temps; if you're going to run a big-ass oil cooler like mine on the street, get a 180F oilstat to bypass the cooler on cold days. Here's the one I was going to use but decided I didn't need because it stays parked all winter.

Anyway, the remote filter adapter is a nice beefy part that moves the filter away from the headers.
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...ion&key=22-597


The remote filter mount allows me to use a larger Ford oil filter. They also sell one that uses Chevy filters if you prefer. I used to have my oil temp and pressure sensors in the remote filter adapter, but decided the data was more accurate coming off the engine block. But the remote adapter would be a good place for an accusump hookup.
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...ion&key=22-625


Finally, the oil cooler is a beast. It covers about half my radiator (then again so does the intercooler)... which kinda sucks because now I've got my oil temps under control, but my water temps will go up anytime I'm under boost for a long time. So I get maybe 2 laps at RFR before I have to take a cool-down lap to get the water temps back down. But that's better than before when my oil temps would get into the 270F range and never come down without parking the car.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLD-DB-30120/


When I built this setup a few years ago, it probably cost around $600-$700. Prices seem to have gone up since then. Figure $800 for the adapters, cooler and lines... closer to $1000 if you're adding an oilstat. Which sounds expensive... until you consider this is the front line defense for your $6000+ motor, and any massive failure in the oil cooler system will bleed all the oil out of the motor faster than you can key it off. I'd stick with the quality parts/fittings/etc.

Also, it's imperative that you minimize the length of hose, number of fittings, and angles on fittings (use the straightest fittings possible). Getting the system as short, and straight as possible is best to maximize flow through the system. I had previous versions of my oil cooler setup that may have dropped my oil pressures and contributed to killing my motor in the past. The setup above seems to be working pretty well now though.

Here's to hoping this thread goes better than our last one on dry sumps!

[IheartSTI]

I have everything I need other than my sandwich plate being adapted to the block. It realized that the nipple used on the stock oil cooler might work if I get it machined down do to the oil cooler being taller than the sandwich plate. I have my after market cooler mocked up and is looking similar to yours(Scott). The stock oil cooler 22mm x 1.5 nipple happens to be 65$ through Subaru. Anyone have one laying around?

[IheartSTI]

I would love to fork out the cash for another new oem oil cooler but i cant justify buying it since i am not registering the car for street use. Yes it might take a little longer to come up to heat but tracking the car should not make any difference if i have the oem or not.

scott,
Why did you plum the oil cooler lines and remote oil filter on the driver side of the car when the oil comes from the passanger side of the block as well as the cooler itself being mounted passanger side? It looks really good I just was curious more than anything since you specifically said make it as short as possible. Mine is probably a good couple ft shorter. Also i have my cooler mounted so the ends are facing down rather than towards driver side. Do you see this being an issue. thanks

As far as water

[sperry]

Originally Posted by IheartSTI

I would love to fork out the cash for another new oem oil cooler but i cant justify buying it since i am not registering the car for street use. Yes it might take a little longer to come up to heat but tracking the car should not make any difference if i have the oem or not.

scott,
Why did you plum the oil cooler lines and remote oil filter on the driver side of the car when the oil comes from the passanger side of the block as well as the cooler itself being mounted passanger side? It looks really good I just was curious more than anything since you specifically said make it as short as possible. Mine is probably a good couple ft shorter. Also i have my cooler mounted so the ends are facing down rather than towards driver side. Do you see this being an issue. thanks

As far as water

-10AN lines are pretty big and don't make sharp corners. So the layout I chose ended up avoiding the headers and running as straight as possible. The oil filter used to be up where the battery normally goes, but I was tired of the mess it made during oil changes so it got moved under the fender.

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of other routes that would work. Just keep in mind that ever 90deg fitting is like 12ft of line as far as pressure drop (or something ridiculous like that). I'd definitely run an extra foot or two of line if it avoids sharp turn fittings.

In fact that's why the cooler is rotated 90deg. I can use straight fittings instead of 90deg fittings. Plus, it made mounting it to the existing rad supports easier.

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by sperry

-10AN lines are pretty big and don't make sharp corners. So the layout I chose ended up avoiding the headers and running as straight as possible. The oil filter used to be up where the battery normally goes, but I was tired of the mess it made during oil changes so it got moved under the fender.

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of other routes that would work. Just keep in mind that ever 90deg fitting is like 12ft of line as far as pressure drop (or something ridiculous like that). I'd definitely run an extra foot or two of line if it avoids sharp turn fittings.

In fact that's why the cooler is rotated 90deg. I can use straight fittings instead of 90deg fittings. Plus, it made mounting it to the existing rad supports easier.

I will keep that in mind thanks for the info.

[Dean]

Bumping this for a little more discussion on the stock oil cooler and the necessity to replace after engine damage.

I spent a good deal of time looking at this yesterday. While I agree it has a zillion tiny passages that could capture stuff, the theory of that stuff getting into your new engine does not make sense.

First, I would say that the screen on the pan pickup is going to keep most stuff out of the cooler in the first place after the damage.

Second, oil flow through the filter is from outside to inside and the output from the filter goes straight through the "cooler" in the sealed center pipe. Anything that might come free in the cooler would have to go through the filter before entering the engine.

I am not saying that trapped material could not reduce flow or even clog the cooler, but the argument that the material could get back into the engine is highly questionable.

My '07 burned through a piston and there is a lot of unaccounted for aluminum, and because I have the one from my '04 that did not have a significant failure I am going to use it. If I didn't, I would have to do some reverse flushing to see what might come out before I bought a new one.

If all you had was a spun bearing, the amount of material and size of the bits are damn small and easily filterable.

I am not convinced replacing a $200+ cooler is necessary in all but extreme cases.

Maybe I am missing something and would be happy to hear a better explanation of this issue.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Bumping this for a little more discussion on the stock oil cooler and the necessity to replace after engine damage.

I spent a good deal of time looking at this yesterday. While I agree it has a zillion tiny passages that could capture stuff, the theory of that stuff getting into your new engine does not make sense.

First, I would say that the screen on the pan pickup is going to keep most stuff out of the cooler in the first place after the damage.

Second, oil flow through the filter is from outside to inside and the output from the filter goes straight through the "cooler" in the sealed center pipe. Anything that might come free in the cooler would have to go through the filter before entering the engine.

I am not saying that trapped material could not reduce flow or even clog the cooler, but the argument that the material could get back into the engine is highly questionable.

My '07 burned through a piston and there is a lot of unaccounted for aluminum, and because I have the one from my '04 that did not have a significant failure I am going to use it. If I didn't, I would have to do some reverse flushing to see what might come out before I bought a new one.

If all you had was a spun bearing, the amount of material and size of the bits are damn small and easily filterable.

I am not convinced replacing a $200+ cooler is necessary in all but extreme cases.

Maybe I am missing something and would be happy to hear a better explanation of this issue.

First, it's not necessarily big chunks of metal that are the issue. It's the very tiny, borderline microscopic ones... the ones that will get past the filter even. Normally you'll have this metal in the oil as the motor breaks in and wears normally, but it goes away every time you change the oil and slowly builds back up. But if you've got a ready supply of grit in the cooler constantly washing into the oil at a high rate, then you end up with oil that expires your bearings over a relatively short period of time.

Now, I have first hand experience destroying a motor due to reusing a well-cleaned oil cooler. A new shortblock costs $2000, making a $200 oil cooler chump change to replace "just in case". I just don't know why anyone would risk it... especially if they're installing an expensive, brand new, build motor. Well okay, I know why Dean would risk it...

Also remember, it may not be as dramatic as my failure was... it may just be the difference between 50,000 miles out of the motor and 100,000 miles... but $200 to double the lifespan of the motor... of course!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

First, it's not necessarily big chunks of metal that are the issue. It's the very tiny, borderline microscopic ones... the ones that will get past the filter even. Normally you'll have this metal in the oil as the motor breaks in and wears normally, but it goes away every time you change the oil and slowly builds back up. But if you've got a ready supply of grit in the cooler constantly washing into the oil at a high rate, then you end up with oil that expires your bearings over a relatively short period of time.

Now, I have first hand experience destroying a motor due to reusing a well-cleaned oil cooler. A new shortblock costs $2000, making a $200 oil cooler chump change to replace "just in case". I just don't know why anyone would risk it... especially if they're installing an expensive, brand new, build motor. Well okay, I know why Dean would risk it...

Also remember, it may not be as dramatic as my failure was... it may just be the difference between 50,000 miles out of the motor and 100,000 miles... but $200 to double the lifespan of the motor... of course!

I am not trying to start a fight, risk an engine for $200, doubt your failure cause or whatever, really just trying to understand this widely held belief vs. what I see in the cooler.

Question, was your failure with an external cooler as well or just the stock?

I would think very small particles that could get through a filter could be easily washed out of the stock cooler as they would suspend in most any agitated solvent likely far more so than in flowing oil.

Not that I looked at it under a microscope, but I flushed and dried the '04 as I did with all the oil related parts and I would tell you the stuff in it was less nasty than the bottom / nooks and crannys of the pan. Likely this is due to regular pressurized flow vs. slosh and drain type flow. Getting the crap from under/around the inserts in the stock pan was a PITA.

I am just wonder if this is an internet myth more than fact? I'm sure reusing any uncleaned part could cause a failure and that engines have failed that have not had this swapped, but considering the particles that are generated during break in and how soon most people swap out that oil/filter, I would think the delta would be little if any considering that the cooler flow has to go through the filter.

[sperry]

If it were an Internet myth, I probably would have heard about it and swapped the cooler. This came to me from Robert at AIMS and was confirmed after the fact by Mike Warfield at GST.

Now maybe it was something else, but it was the first thing Robert asked me after I called him to tell him my new motor died on the dyno, so I have to believe it's relatively common.

For the record, I did not reuse my other oil cooler. Just the factory oil/coolant heat exchanger. The big oil cooler was new.

[IheartSTI]

i did not change the oil cooler i just washed it really well and the stock replacement motor i put in lasted a good half a hour or so... My experience and it sounds like scotts experience leads me to believe it would be better to fork out the extra couple hundred bucks as a safe measure. to each his own though. (this could be unrelated to the engine failing but i wont take the risk again)

[MPREZIV]

For what it's worth, I always recommend replacing them with any type of engine failure resulting in metal bits in the oiling system. I wouldn't re-use one on my motor, in the same situation.

[Dean]

Again, I am not trying to tell people not to replace it, I am just trying to understand the logic or fallacy in doing so.

Given the screen on the pickup is in front of it in flow and the filter is after it, unless there is another path I am missing, I am just suggesting there are failures that are being attributed to this not being replaced that are actually something else.

This is important IMHO. If we are replacing this blindly when the culprit is really something else that should be replaced or something wrong in the process, we need to know.

In terms of process, I could also understand people cleaning it with solvent and then not drying it being an issue. Any solvent would get pushed through the motor first and wash any assembly lube right away.

After flushing my non blow up '04, and blowing it mostly dry, I ran a heat gun through it until it was about 200 degrees.

It would be interesting to cut one from a bearing failure open, but the cutting would introduce all sorts of new metal filings.

I am going to take a look at the '04 block when I get a chance to make sure I have the flow correct.

More on process... .

I wonder if pre filling the filter helps or hinders the pump from priming.

I was planning on running the starter with plugs out to get oil flowing before first spark, but wonder if that is actually bad as oil will wash lube away and will then drain before I can get it started for initial warm up run.

[Kevin M]

Quicker and easier to just disable fuel and crank to gain oil pressure, than to remove spark plugs. Plus that way you're not pumping fuel into the cylinders while you crank, plugs or not.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Quicker and easier to just disable fuel and crank to gain oil pressure, than to remove spark plugs. Plus that way you're not pumping fuel into the cylinders while you crank, plugs or not.

Also, plugging the fuel pump relay back in takes 2 seconds, so you can crank the engine until it's got oil pressure then start it immediately rather than letting the oil pressure bleed off while you reinstall the spark plugs.

[Dean]

I was just thinking it would be nice not to have the compression pressure on the rings until oil pressure was up.

Fuel pump relay is already unplugged from disassemble so that is the last thing to get plugged back in.

[IheartSTI]

Scott, you were telling me that every 90 degree bend equals like 12 feet in line. Do you thing this would be the same for the avcs to head to turbo? I bought -4 lines and all the fittings but I used no 90 degree bent line or fittings. It does not like as clean as I want it to but I am willing to sacrifice form for function. What do you think?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by IheartSTI

Scott, you were telling me that every 90 degree bend equals like 12 feet in line. Do you thing this would be the same for the avcs to head to turbo? I bought -4 lines and all the fittings but I used no 90 degree bent line or fittings. It does not like as clean as I want it to but I am willing to sacrifice form for function. What do you think?

Don't quote me on the specifics of the 90deg fittings... I just know they're supposed to be pretty bad. I was told to avoid the 90+ deg bends by Greg Benson a while back when discussing my oil cooler routing. But again, that was "avoid", not "never use". IIRC, I'm still using one 90deg fitting in my oil cooler setup because it made routing the lines a million times easier.

As far as the oil feed to the turbo, I would guess it's not quite as critical. Not to say the oil feed to the turbo isn't critical, I just don't think it's all that high-flow because there's a big restriction at the bearing, no? -4AN lines are pretty big for the turbo oil feed, like 1/4" right? I bet a single 90deg wouldn't cause any issues. In fact, don't the stock lines use a banjo fitting on the block? A banjo has got to be much worse than a nice 90deg AN fitting.

[IheartSTI]

Ya after thinking about it I came to the conclusion it does not even matter since you have to use a .08mm restrictor before the turbo. I deleted the banjo set up and just used metric fitting to -4 line. On another note I think i am going to weld an aluminum frame off my custco strut brace and bolt my oil cooler to it. I like the factory sti look however having a front mount makes my hood scoop useless so maybe this will justify keeping it.

[sperry]

I ran a top mount oil cooler for a bit. Seemed to work okay for cooling, but I was warned by Mike W that pumping the oil up that high might have some bad pressure side effects so I ended up moving it back down to the grill.

I do know other folks have done alright with it up there. It's just tricky to route the lines to be sure you have enough flow and don't accidentally heat the oil with the turbo.

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by sperry

I ran a top mount oil cooler for a bit. Seemed to work okay for cooling, but I was warned by Mike W that pumping the oil up that high might have some bad pressure side effects so I ended up moving it back down to the grill.

I do know other folks have done alright with it up there. It's just tricky to route the lines to be sure you have enough flow and don't accidentally heat the oil with the turbo.

I think the lines will stay cool being that all the exhaust piping will be heat wrapped and also using a turbo blanket. My concern would be oil pressure dropping due to the cooler being so high.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by IheartSTI

I think the lines will stay cool being that all the exhaust piping will be heat wrapped and also using a turbo blanket. My concern would be oil pressure dropping due to the cooler being so high.

One other thing to consider: on my top-mount oil cooler, I ran into an issue with vibration causing leaks on the cooler. Make sure you have plenty of support for it. Mine was just bolted thru the top, but only connected to the brackets I made just on one side. The top of the cooler supported a bit by the hoodscoop when the hood was closed (with some stick-on foam rubber there to cushion it). It seemed pretty solid, but over time vibration started separating the cooler right above the fittings anyway.

[IheartSTI]

Originally Posted by sperry

One other thing to consider: on my top-mount oil cooler, I ran into an issue with vibration causing leaks on the cooler. Make sure you have plenty of support for it. Mine was just bolted thru the top, but only connected to the brackets I made just on one side. The top of the cooler supported a bit by the hoodscoop when the hood was closed (with some stick-on foam rubber there to cushion it). It seemed pretty solid, but over time vibration started separating the cooler right above the fittings anyway.

Seems like it might be one of those things you ask yourself "is the benefit worth all this work". might reconsider seeing how i dont really want to be doing r&d on every last thing i have been building. I think my main focus should be testing everything i have fab'd thus far. I believe the biggest problem i will have is the uppipe vibration and weight of the turbo. I am thinking i should reinforce it. top mount oil cooler is on the back burner.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by IheartSTI

Seems like it might be one of those things you ask yourself "is the benefit worth all this work". might reconsider seeing how i dont really want to be doing r&d on every last thing i have been building. I think my main focus should be testing everything i have fab'd thus far. I believe the biggest problem i will have is the uppipe vibration and weight of the turbo. I am thinking i should reinforce it. top mount oil cooler is on the back burner.

Is the turbo too big to use the factory bracket that bolts it to the head? That should be plenty to prevent vibration, IMO.

[knucklesplitter]

The Engine Rebuilders Association (AERA.org) sells Caution Tags for machine shops to put on reworked crankshafts. On the back of them is a list of installation procedures, and though you can't see it on the little pic below, the last item is "Replace oil cooler element if engine has had a metal failure". FWIW...



http://www.aera.org/products/cranktag.jpg