LED TV's?

[GusGus91]

Does anybody here have any experience w/ LED TV's? Likes, Dislikes, how they run w/ blu-ray and video games? I'm thinking about getting one but I'm just not sure about it yet.

[cody]

Read this:

LED TVs compared: Local dimming, edge-lit, and full array

If you thought all LED TVs were created equal, you're underestimating the power of confusion as a marketing tool. In their continuing efforts to compete against the picture quality advantages of plasma-based flat-panel TVs, makers of LCDs TVs have introduced numerous new technologies. The most successful in our opinion is full-array LED backlighting with local dimming. When you see the words "LED TV" in an ad, it definitely refers to an LCD TV with an LED backlight, but what type of LED backlight and how it's configured make all the difference.

Below we've gathered reviews of six different "LED TVs" that provide examples of all four LED backlight configurations, but first we'll provide a bit of context. All LCD-based TVs rely on a backlight of some kind to illuminate the liquid-crystal panel itself. The most common use fluorescent backlights, known as CCFL, but a growing number feature LED backlights instead. LEDs use somewhat less power, can enable thinner flat-panel cabinets, and--crucially for TV makers--provide a great excuse to charge more money. But make no mistake: despite the misleading marketing, LED TVs are just LCD TVs with fancy backlights.

Unfortunately for TV shoppers, the confusion just increases from there. To help cut through the clutter we're going to lengthen our descriptions beyond the "LED TV" shorthand, and tell you how picture quality generally compares with standard LCD. More details are available in our LED TVs: 10 things you need to know companion piece as well as the individual reviews.

Full-array without local dimming: The rarest of the bunch but the most familiar in concept. These models are just like standard LCD-based TVs aside from the fact that the CCFL backlight is replaced by LEDs. The "full-array" means that the LEDs themselves are arranged behind the entire LCD panel, not just along the edge.
Picture quality impact: No difference compared with standard LCD.
Example below: Sharp LC-46LE700UN

Edge-lit without local dimming: The most common today. Chances are if you see an "LED TV" advertised, it's this variety, which was first widely introduced by Samsung in 2009, then imitated in 2010 by just about everyone else. It's characterized by thin cabinet designs--around just an inch or even less in depth--that lead to decreased weight in shipping and wall-mounting, along with increased bragging rights (although we fail to see much practical appeal versus a standard, 3-to-5-inch-deep flat-panel TV). Unlike full-array models, the LEDs on these sets are arranged only along the edge of the LCD panel, and can illuminate the center and other areas of the screen using so-called "light guides."
Picture quality impact: No major advantage over standard LCD, and can have even more uniformity problems, such as brighter edges compared with the middle.
Example below: Samsung UNC6500 series

Full-array with local dimming: The original and still the best. There are exceptions, but in general, TVs with this LED backlight configuration are the best-performing LCDs you can buy. They're similar to full-array models, but the individual zones of LEDs can be dimmed or brightened independently.
Picture quality impact: Can have significantly better black levels and uniformity than normal LCD, but will also exhibit "blooming," or stray illumination, to some extent.
Examples below: Vizio XVT3 series, Sony XBR-HX909 series

Edge-lit with local dimming: A new innovation for 2010, currently available on select models from Samsung, LG and Sony. The idea is to allow some dimming of the screen in independent areas without having to place LEDs behind the LCD panel, just along the edge.
Picture quality impact: In our tests, the Samsung preformed relatively well and the LG did not, although neither matched the picture quality of full-array with local dimming and both exhibited more blooming.

http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-6482_7-399.html

CN: Get Full-array with local dimming or don't bother.

I am a Plasma fan myself.

[Dean]

I think the key point here is that they are still LCD TVS and the response time of the LCD is going to determine how good it is for any sort of fast action be it from Blu-Ray, Game system or PC attached.

The type of lighting described above has no impact on responsiveness to image changes, only lighting/brightness and contrast.

Most budget LCDs are going to be edge lit without dimming CCFL or LED and will look pretty damn good on <40" sets. Many >40" sets will also look good edge lit with CCFL or LED.

You are probably going to pay a whole lot more for a Full array or edge lit with local dimming. Only your eye can tell if it is worth it.

[cody]

I don't think response time has any importance apart from gaming right? Regardless, most modern TV's have no issue with response time. I usually see either 2ms or 5ms on modern TN panels.

[Dean]

Anything moving fast from any source. Even DVDs can generate lag and the 2-4ms numbers they are now purporting may not be accurate. And if you are used to watching a Plasma and good old CRT that do not have this issue, it can be quite obvious and annoying.

You won't notice it watching most broadcast drama or comedies, but it can be very obvious on sports, action movies and gaming.

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...onse-time.html

[GusGus91]

Oh that was really helpful cody, thanks. Yea I love my plasma. I just want a tv for my bedroom. I guess I'll just have to see what my price range is and then go check out the tv's and see what looks best for the price.

[cody]

Originally Posted by Dean

Anything moving fast from any source. Even DVDs can generate lag and the 2-4ms numbers they are now purporting may not be accurate. And if you are used to watching a Plasma and good old CRT that do not have this issue, it can be quite obvious and annoying.

You won't notice it watching most broadcast drama or comedies, but it can be very obvious on sports, action movies and gaming.

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...onse-time.html

Aw okay. I didn't realize it was related to the blur effect inherent in most LCD TV's. I get it now. I found this article informitive on the subject: http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdt...onsetime.shtml

Originally Posted by GusGus91

Oh that was really helpful cody, thanks. Yea I love my plasma. I just want a tv for my bedroom. I guess I'll just have to see what my price range is and then go check out the tv's and see what looks best for the price.

No problem. If you can wait, the week or two before the Superbowl is when TV prices are at their best. I'll post here if I see any awesome deals.

[GusGus91]

Well there's a 42" Panasonic plasma at costco for $449 that I'm looking at.. Just the smaller version of the TV in my living room. I'm going to check best buy then I'll see. If I can find a good price and a good tv I might just pick up some new speakers since my Boston Acoustics are a little outdated..

Lol any speaker advice?!

[Dean]

$449 for a 42" 1080p LCD is a pretty good deal, but 720p plasmas can be had for under $400.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Nobody wants a 720 plasma.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

Nobody wants a 720 plasma.

No kidding... even my wife's great grandmother is rocking a 42" 1080p LCD.

[GusGus91]

So after going an looking at tv's today. I might just get a 1080p LCD w/ 120Hz. I'm just trying to find one with the wifi integration in it. I guess it just depends on how much money I want to end up spending..

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

No kidding... even my wife's great grandmother is rocking a 42" 1080p LCD.

Seriously?

Our only tv is the 27" CRT I had in college. With an antenna.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by GusGus91

So after going an looking at tv's today. I might just get a 1080p LCD w/ 120Hz. I'm just trying to find one with the wifi integration in it. I guess it just depends on how much money I want to end up spending..

Why do you want WiFi? It adds significantly to the price of a set with minimal functionality. Plug an old PC in if you want real web functionality.

I watch streamed, captured and Downloaded content on my lowly 50" 720p projection 3 X LCD from the attached P4 3.6Ghz PC all the time and it rocks. You need more HP to watch 1080p, but you get the idea.

And don't let the 1080p hype fool you, unless you are watching blu-ray, you are not watching 1080p.

ABC, ESPN, FOX, Speed and other sports networks are almost all 720p, while the other majors are 1080i. 720p upconverts OK to 1080 and 1080i downconverts to 720 OK, but they both look better on a native resolution display. If you are a sports guy a cheap 720p plasma may actually be a great option.

[GusGus91]

Originally Posted by Dean

Why do you want WiFi? It adds significantly to the price of a set with minimal functionality. Plug an old PC in if you want real web functionality.

I watch streamed, captured and Downloaded content on my lowly 50" 720p projection 3 X LCD from the attached P4 3.6Ghz PC all the time and it rocks. You need more HP to watch 1080p, but you get the idea.

And don't let the 1080p hype fool you, unless you are watching blu-ray, you are not watching 1080p.

ABC, ESPN, FOX, Speed and other sports networks are almost all 720p, while the other majors are 1080i. 720p upconverts OK to 1080 and 1080i downconverts to 720 OK, but they both look better on a native resolution display. If you are a sports guy a cheap 720p plasma may actually be a great option.

The wifi sounded intriguing at the time when I saw it. But, I just realized i only wanted it for the netflix streaming to the tv, which I have on my xbox anyway. As far as 1080p, I was planning on watching Blu-Ray, and Playing GT5 on the new TV. I'm not really into sports either. Just motorsports, and winter sports. I'm going to go down to costco today, since they seemed to have the best prices that I've seen so far. I'll update if I come home w/ anything.

[Dean]

Check Walmart too... They have some killer prices on lower end models.

[GusGus91]

Ok i'll stop by on my way into town.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Originally Posted by GusGus91

So after going an looking at tv's today. I might just get a 1080p LCD w/ 120Hz. I'm just trying to find one with the wifi integration in it. I guess it just depends on how much money I want to end up spending..

Your PS3 is wireless and you can stream netflix. I have the sony bravia and it has all sorts of stupid little apps but I never use them.

[Kevin M]

WalMart frequently buys B (or lower) panel grades. I'd stick to Costco, or go to BestBuy and make them price match Amazon.com. They'll be unhappy about it, but they'll usually do it because Amazon is genuine retailer who warranties and buys A-grade panels, unlike all the other discount websites out there.

[GusGus91]

I didnt know bestbuy price matched.. Which is good for me now because I saw some at bestbuy last night, but they were ungodly expensive.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

WalMart frequently buys B (or lower) panel grades. I'd stick to Costco, or go to BestBuy and make them price match Amazon.com. They'll be unhappy about it, but they'll usually do it because Amazon is genuine retailer who warranties and buys A-grade panels, unlike all the other discount websites out there.

What are you saying? A Samsung Model XXXX at Walmart is not the same as a Samsung model XXXX at Costco or Best Buy, or that some of the brands Walmart carries use lower quality panels?

I might agree with the later in general, but there are some "name brands" that use crap as well as some real bargains that use good components.

[Kevin M]

Every brand name produces panels that don't meet the standard- those go at a cut price to the non-name discount sellers. Amazon, Best Buy, and most B&M chains don't buy anything but A-grade panels.

This is according t what the guy at BestBuy told me when we were buying two HD TVs and a PS3 a couple years ag. He price matched Amazon specifically because they are a full service retailer who doesn't sell lower grade panels. WalMart on the other hand, does, because 99% of WalMart customers won't know the difference anyway.

[Aaronsp10]

Kevin is correct.. I sold home theater for best buy in a previous lifetime.
The models will have different part numbers from the lower grade panel at costco to the higher grade at say best buy. You will also find out they have cut corners with inputs as well to keep costs Lower for say.. Wallmart.
Also.. Dynex.. Insignia.. Vizio.. Etc are actually made by one of there more expensive counterparts like lg and others

[khail19]

My small input based on owning a 42" 720p plasma and a 37" 1080p LCD. The plasma looks better with just about every source I've tried. Upconverted DVD, Charter HD channels, and video games all look better on the 720p plasma. I don't have Bluray though, that might look better on the 1080p.

[Dean]

I agree that there are grade A & B panels based on defective pixels(dead or frozen) and/or clouding or Mura, but a Samsung model 1234 at Walmart has the same panel that meets the same standards as a Samsung model 1234 at Best Buy, don't let anybody tell you anything else.

Depending on the manufacturer, even the grade A panels may have dead or frozen pixels, usually dead especially on 1080p displays.

If you really want to know, research a company's replacement policy on dead or frozen pixels. That will tell you what they are setting for a standard.

Most people cannot see a few dead pixels depending on location and only detect frozen ones against a black backgrounds.

Aaron is right about the other corner sutting on the cheaper sets. Non universal remotes and fewer inputs are common ways to cut costs even if the panel is the same. You can probably save $20-50 bucks easily as a manufacturer by using a cheaper 1 function remote and limiting your number and location of inputs.

All I am saying is look at the display you are buying. Grab the remote and fix the picture settings that the stores often F with on the cheaper sets to try and upsell you. There are some damn nice sets at Walmart, Costco, RC Wiley, etc. at well below Best Buy prices often on the identical sets.