Remodded my intake

[cody]

:LOL:

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by cody

So you don't think 200*F+ air entering the IC inlet affects heatsoak on a stationary STi?

You get full boost while your car is stationary? I guess that MBC really works!!

[Nick Koan]

What if we took a big block of ice and put it on the intercooler?

[cody]

Originally Posted by MikeK

You get full boost while your car is stationary? I guess that MBC really works!!

Yah Dude, that's one of the benefits of running an MBC.

No, but I'm assuming that if your turbo is red hot from an AutoX run, the air coming out at idle is still pretty hot.

IBKevinSaysYouAssumeWrong

[Dean]

The point is that intake temp is not significantly important even at idle because it will get heated to underhood temp by the intercooler. (Some of which is caused by radient and ambient turbo heat.)

This is why we spray Intercoolers in grid. 50* water cools aluminum to <50* due to evaporation, so intercooler output temp ends up about 50*.

[cody]

So why do you always make fun of me when I spray my IC?

I'm not peeing on my engine damnit.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

So the tempature of your charged air has NO (absolutey Zero) affect on engine performance Why does nearly every turbocharged car have an intercooler then ?

Oh well, at least i only wasted $3.50 intead of the cost of a FMIC

Do you intentionally mis-read things in order to argue?

What I said was, the lower temperatures you get from your $3.50 mod makes no difference in your engine performance. IIRC, you're not even reflashed, let alone customed tuned for that whopping 1 to 5 degree lower intake temperature. So on your car, you wasted $3.50 and added useless weight to your car for no performance benefit.

On the other hand, my FMIC doesn't easily heat soak, and allows me to boost to 1.4 bar on 91 octane and put over 300 hp to the wheels... all without a cold air intake. Tell me again who's wasting their money.

[JonnydaJibba]

Originally Posted by sperry

Do you intentionally mis-read things in order to argue?

What I said was, the lower temperatures you get from your $3.50 mod makes no difference in your engine performance. IIRC, you're not even reflashed, let alone customed tuned for that whopping 1 to 5 degree lower intake temperature. So on your car, you wasted $3.50 and added useless weight to your car for no performance benefit.

On the other hand, my FMIC doesn't easily heat soak, and allows me to boost to 1.4 bar on 91 octane and put over 300 hp to the wheels... all without a cold air intake. Tell me again who's wasting their money.

How much have you put into a silly bugeye? No I kid, I kid.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JonnydaJibba

How much have you put into a silly bugeye? No I kid, I kid.

http://www.renoscca.com/results/2006/round5_pax.txt

[JonnydaJibba]

Oh I wanna watch.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by cody

So why do you always make fun of me when I spray my IC?

I'm not peeing on my engine damnit.

Becasue you are doing it when you are supposed to be in the car getting up to the start line.

And the way you hold your sprayer looks funny, so I am required by grid nazi law to harass you about it.

[A1337STI]

IF the heat of the charged air doesn't factor in, then Yes you wasted money.
If the heat of the charged air DOES factor in, then No you did not waste money (and yes of course it helps )

just drop your ego for 2 minutes
/*#include <ego.h> */
....and work through the logic. Basically if your FMIC is helping, then so is my crapper $3.50 shield. We've worked out on this thread that my lil crapper mod may be worth a ~ 1.3 F change in CHARGED AIR TEMP. and your FMIC is probably worth 100+ (i'de guess 200 but i dunno) but its the same thing (qualitatively speaking), both result in reductions in Temp of the CHARGED AIR going into the motor AFTER the IC.

either cold > hot . or it isn't
is 100 extra F way worse then 1.35 , Oh hell yah. its not a linear improvement , its not 100 times worse, but the first can be express as a multiple of the later. There for my shield is worth is > 0 Don't try to Quantify, just think in Binary. 0 or 1. True or false. either you want the air as cold as possible, or you don't .


printf("sarcasm\n");
okay ego back on? sure 1.5F temp change in charged air, Post IC would not make even a 1 nueton /1cm force differance. If its my car .
printf("\\sarcasm\n");

So Scott, either you were wrong when you worked out my mod could alter post charged air by 1.35 (or any number greator then 0) , or you are wrong that cold air > Hot air. take your pick

(i'm not saying 1F post IC makes a big differance, but i am saying given an accurate enough dyno, and the ability to hold all other variables constant, it could be measured ) in science that's called a qualitative result. its like binary its either 0 or 1. there's no indication of 'how much' it helped. I'm not claiming a Quantitive result, just a Qualitative.


And yes of course, BanSuvs is way way right about me changing the Shape of my intake. the MAF was designed to sit in a certain location, with a plastic breather box, silencer, and snorkel in front of it. if you change anything in there at all its possible to change how the air is flowing as it comes up to the MAF, and there for requires a tune.

I still think dry ice (while parked) will cool off the IC faster then ambient air. i'm sure at every ambient Temp (and humidity) one could figure out the driving speed where moving air over the IC is better then ice. (35 mph ish ? a wild guess)

and if my mod didn't help me for $3.50 worth. at least i got that much value of out this thread. i hope you did also

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by JonnydaJibba

How much have you put into a silly bugeye? No I kid, I kid.

No amount of money is too much to spend for a crappy $2 trophy at the end of the year!!!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

I still think dry ice (while parked) will cool off the IC faster then ambient air. i'm sure at every ambient Temp (and humidity) one could figure out the driving speed where moving air over the IC is better then ice. (35 mph ish ? a wild guess)

Maybe, but water is even better, much cheaper, easier to obtain, and handle than dry ice.

Water has a much larger surface contact area than dry ice, and better yet, evaporates which has an imense cooling potential.

[A1337STI]

Great Pax Results !!
You Certainaly are a Great driver, with an awesome car. the only class i'll win in a long time to come is a class of one, like STU over last weekend.

feel better ?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

IF the heat of the charged air doesn't factor in, then Yes you wasted money.
If the heat of the charged air DOES factor in, then No you did not waste money (and yes of course it helps )

just drop your ego for 2 minutes
/*#include <ego.h> */
....and work through the logic. Basically if your FMIC is helping, then so is my crapper $3.50 shield. We've worked out on this thread that my lil crapper mod may be worth a ~ 1.3 F change in CHARGED AIR TEMP. and your FMIC is probably worth 100+ (i'de guess 200 but i dunno) but its the same thing (qualitatively speaking), both result in reductions in Temp of the CHARGED AIR going into the motor AFTER the IC.

either cold > hot . or it isn't
is 100 extra F way worse then 1.35 , Oh hell yah. its not a linear improvement , its not 100 times worse, but the first can be express as a multiple of the later. There for my shield is worth is > 0 Don't try to Quantify, just think in Binary. 0 or 1. True or false. either you want the air as cold as possible, or you don't .


printf("sarcasm\n");
okay ego back on? sure 1.5F temp change in charged air, Post IC would not make even a 1 nueton /1cm force differance. If its my car .
printf("\\sarcasm\n");

So Scott, either you were wrong when you worked out my mod could alter post charged air by 1.35 (or any number greator then 0) , or you are wrong that cold air > Hot air. take your pick

(i'm not saying 1F post IC makes a big differance, but i am saying given an accurate enough dyno, and the ability to hold all other variables constant, it could be measured ) in science that's called a qualitative result. its like binary its either 0 or 1. there's no indication of 'how much' it helped. I'm not claiming a Quantitive result, just a Qualitative.


And yes of course, BanSuvs is way way right about me changing the Shape of my intake. the MAF was designed to sit in a certain location, with a plastic breather box, silencer, and snorkel in front of it. if you change anything in there at all its possible to change how the air is flowing as it comes up to the MAF, and there for requires a tune.

I still think dry ice (while parked) will cool off the IC faster then ambient air. i'm sure at every ambient Temp (and humidity) one could figure out the driving speed where moving air over the IC is better then ice. (35 mph ish ? a wild guess)

and if my mod didn't help me for $3.50 worth. at least i got that much value of out this thread. i hope you did also

YOUR CAR IS NOT TUNED FOR THE MOD, THEREFORE YOU WILL NOT HAVE *ANY* BENEFIT FROM THE LOWER TEMPERATURE.

How many times does it need to be said? You can't reliably tune for the lower temp that heat shield is providing, so there is no benefit to having it. You say that the temp is lower, I agree, but it doesn't add any power to the motor unless you can up the boost/timing to make use of the reduced tendancy to detonate (not that there would be any significant difference from 2* lower intake temps), you won't see any useable performance increase. Or are you arguing that the density increase in the air from 1.3* of reduced temperature is enough to be considered a gain in performance? If that's the case, show me how much faster your car is with 0.00001 more hp from the extra 150 molecules of oxygen you're getting into the motor per combustion cycle.

As far as quantitive vs. qualitative... a change that has no quantitive benefit HAS NO BENEFIT. If you can't measure a difference in performance after a mod, then the mod did nothing. So what if the math and physics says the air at your manifold is 2* (or even 200*) colder, if the car isn't faster, what have you accomplished? Racing isn't physics class, it's about actually going faster than the next guy. I hate to sound like Vin Diesel, but if you're not faster than the next guy, it doesn't matter what crap you've bolted to the car.

[A1337STI]

wait a second. totally honest here. i really thought anystock car, no mods. would run a little better when its cold out, IE more hp. ? so every car makes the exact same HP when its 100 F compared to 32 F ?

okay sorry my bad. honestly, i thought the outside temp made a differance. cars are confusing

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

wait a second. totally honest here. i really thought anystock car, no mods. would run a little better when its cold out, IE more hp. ? so every car makes the exact same HP when its 100 F compared to 32 F ?

okay sorry my bad. honestly, i thought the outside temp made a differance. cars are confusing

Of course cars make more power with cooler air, but we just calculated that the heat sheild you rigged up is only good for 1 to 2 degrees of cooler air, which when considering the variances inherrent in power output not related to air temperature, isn't enough of a temperature drop to make a useful difference versus a car without the heat shield.

Like I said, I agree that on paper you can calculate the benefit of the mod, but in real life, it's not going to do anything aside from giving you a warm fuzzy feeling that your intake is colder than it used to be.

Now, if we were talking about a normally aspirated car w/o an intercooler, this would be a totally different argument. I just don't think that the benefit on a stock STI is measurable. You're certainly not going to win a race because you added a heat shield to the intake, and that's really the only measuring stick that counts IMO.

[Dean]

Warm Fuzzy = +4HP... Almost as good as a SECCS sticker...

[A1337STI]

Cool. that's what i figured. that on paper one could figure out the change, but its not going to show up as a gas milage increase, more Wins, or better dyno results.

and ya its Almost as good as a SECCS Sticker. but maybe if i put a SECCS Sticker on the new heat shield ......

BTW G-Unitclothing.com is having a 30% off sale. hurry up and buy now !! you too Dean !!



Neee

[rubberbiscuitt]

i had no idea this thread would go this long, and in such a short amount of time.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by rubberbiscuitt

i had no idea this thread would go this long, and in such a short amount of time.

Welcome to SECCS, where no dissenting popular internet-based opinion goes unchallenged for long.

[tysonK]

Originally Posted by rubberbiscuitt

i had no idea this thread would go this long, and in such a short amount of time.

have you seen A1337STI post before.

[A1337STI]

Originally Posted by tysonK

have you seen A1337STI post before.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

I still think dry ice (while parked) will cool off the IC faster then ambient air. i'm sure at every ambient Temp (and humidity) one could figure out the driving speed where moving air over the IC is better then ice. (35 mph ish ? a wild guess)

What? Who in their right mind would go to the trouble of obtaining dry ice, storing & transporting it, in order to cool down an intercooler that will be hot again within a few seconds of driving the car?

If you really want your car to go faster on a track or auto-x course, concentrate on your driving, tires, chassis/suspension & brakes. An STi has plenty of power stock. The powertrain is not something to expend any effort on until you've maximized everything else.