Possible Wagon conversion?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

So now you're in the realm of totally subjective value for the return on the investment. If someone says that spending $5000 to swap his car, whatever it may be, is worth it to him, how can you argue by saying that he could have saved money by doing something completely different?

Just because someone gets great personal satisfaction out of doing something that's retarded, and thinks it's really worth all the money, time & effort, doesn't make it any less retarded.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

If you want to argue the merits of the goal itself, that's something completely different.

That's the only thing I've been arguing. Since trading for a WRX makes no financial sense either, how is one waste of money stupider than another?

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

That's the only thing I've been arguing. Since trading for a WRX makes no financial sense either, how is one waste of money stupider than another?

Because wasting $5,000 is less stupid than wasting $10,000 ($5,00 less stupid to be exact).

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by nKoan

Because wasting $5,000 is less stupid than wasting $10,000 ($5,00 less stupid to be exact).

But you don't end up with the same thing.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

But you don't end up with the same thing.

I guess, but they are close enough. Would you rather have a one of a kind TS wagon with a WRX swap, or a WRX wagon and $5,000?

I'd have to go with the factory WRX wagon and an extra $5k. Being unique isn't worth $5k, especially with the GD/GG chassis.

Which is why only swapping in an STi drivetrain really makes sense. Anything else is just more of a waste of money then just purchasing the equivalent car.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

That's the only thing I've been arguing. Since trading for a WRX makes no financial sense either, how is one waste of money stupider than another?

That's not what we were discussing. I said a TS would be a good platform for an STi swap because it'd yield a unique car, but that it'd be expensive. You said that swapping a WRX drivetrain would be a lot cheaper. Then we argued about whether or not a WRX swap into a TS is worth the money, not about swaps in general.

Would you swap a 4.6L V8 into a 6 cyl Mustang? No, just buy a GT. Would you swap an EVO motor into a base Lancer? No, just buy an EVO. Likewise, don't swap a WRX motor into a TS. If you can buy it from the factory, don't do the swap! It's a huge waste of money.

And if there's anyone that can speak to that point, it's me. My "bugeye STi" is no where near unique enough to make up for the unnecessary $30,000 I've spent on it. I could have just purchased a Porsche Turbo at this point... it would be as fast, but would still have a damn warranty and not need rebuilding once a year.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

But you don't end up with the same thing.

No you end up with a home-made car with no resale value, all sorts of little quirks and rattles that come from the 5MT conversion, and less money in your pocket.

[NevadaSTi]

Originally Posted by sperry

Would you swap a 4.6L V8 into a 6 cyl Mustang? No, just buy a GT.

I do believe a 5.0 v8 swap into a Fox body 4cyl. car is actually a rather easy project. I.E. CHEAP, say $1k give or take.

Same motor mounts, you would need a different rear-end. 4cyl car came with a 7.5" Rear, and V8's came with an 8.8". The 7.5 will survive with a V8, if you aren't abusing it. You might need to upgrade the tranny and driveline. Not sure though.

Now a 4.6 liter into a 4.0 V6 car is a total waste of time and money, might as well turbo / supercharge the V6 instead of blowing tons of money on the conversion.

I have also heard of people doing the 4.6L V8 swap into Fox body mustangs. I would have to say thats probably a waste of time and money also.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

I do believe a 5.0 v8 swap into a Fox body 4cyl. car is actually a rather easy project. I.E. CHEAP, say $1k give or take.

Same motor mounts, you would need a different rear-end. 4cyl car came with a 7.5" Rear, and V8's came with an 8.8". The 7.5 will survive with a V8, if you aren't abusing it. You might need to upgrade the tranny and driveline. Not sure though.

Now a 4.6 liter into a 4.0 V6 car is a total waste of time and money, might as well turbo / supercharge the V6 instead of blowing tons of money on the conversion.

I have also heard of people doing the 4.6L V8 swap into Fox body mustangs. I would have to say thats probably a waste of time and money also.

Nice tangential argument Brian. Welcome to the SECCS debate club.

[NevadaSTi]

Thanks. I honestly had to look that word up. According to Merriam-Webster, it is defined as;

Main Entry: tan·gen·tial
Pronunciation: tan-'jen(t)-sh&l
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or of the nature of a tangent
2 : acting along or lying in a tangent <tangential forces>
3 a : DIVERGENT, DIGRESSIVE b : touching lightly : INCIDENTAL, PERIPHERAL <tangential involvement>; also : of little relevance <arguments tangential to the main point>

I must digress even further. My alterior motive to my post was to point out that as technoligy becames more outdated, it also becomes cheaper. E.I. the 5.0 vs 4.6 V8 swaps.

On an afterthought, do your bosses know how much time you all spend on here argueing about stupid shit? Personally, I get two 15 minute breaks and a lunch. Thats about all the time I have to divulge myself in there intelectual conversations. Which for me, is not enough time to come up with so many stupid ways to argue opinions. Humm. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they usually stink.

Goodnight gentleman. See you all on Thursday at the Shit House that we meet up for dinner at. 4 sick stomachs in a row, FTW!!!!

[JC]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

But, trading his car in to get an STi or even WRX doesn't make financial sense either.

Just because you spend money on something you want doesn't make it a poor financial decision. Being cheap is not the best financial plan nor life plan really.

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

alterior motive

That would be ulterior motive.

[NevadaSTi]

Thanks, I was tired and wanted to go to bed.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

Just because you spend money on something you want doesn't make it a poor financial decision. Being cheap is not the best financial plan nor life plan really.

I agree. So condemning one financial decision as something totally irrational and ignorant and retarded compared another financial decision is silly to me. Noting that it is more dumb is another matter.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I agree. So condemning one financial decision as something totally irrational and ignorant and retarded compared another financial decision is silly to me. Noting that it is more dumb is another matter.

If that were true, then firing someone because of their race is exactly the same thing as killing every member of that race in the country. They're both "totally irrational and ignorant and retarded" actions, and since scale has no bearing on the argument according to you, that makes unlawful termination and genocide "the same thing".

Obviously that's not the case. So, while acknowledging that upgrading from a TS to a WRX wagon may be "frivolous", certainly doing it for $2000 to get a factory car is less frivolous than spending $5000 to get a hacked together car.

[JC]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I agree. So condemning one financial decision as something totally irrational and ignorant and retarded compared another financial decision is silly to me. Noting that it is more dumb is another matter.

That's not really what I meant. Rewarding yourself for working really hard by splurging a little to buy a WRX is the kind of excess that makes life fun and makes you stay focused on your goals. Blowing a ton of cash on a TS because you wished you had bought a WRX is foolish. There is a difference between spending a little more for something you really want and dumping cash in poorly thought out decisions. Like I bought myself the EVO because I had busted my ass in college for 6 years. It's still a reliable car, seats 5, and is safe(ish). So it's meets the basic criteria that I need for a car but with a little extra something for my hard work. Yes it's expensive for a person who just graduated but it's an excess that is OK. I could have gone and bought a Cayman or even a 911 Carrera. I still could have swung the payments but it would be a poor financial and logical decision. Financial life is about moderation, not excess in either spending direction.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

Blowing a ton of cash on a TS because you wished you had bought a WRX is foolish.

Yes, this is true. But spending somewhat more money to swap the car you own is not so totally foolish it should be ridiculed by those who would not do it, or wish they hadn't. Deciding that you want to take a car you like and make it faster is not equivalent, in my opinion, to simply wishing you had a faster car. "I want a 12 second car" is not the same goal as "I want to take on the project of swapping a totally different drivetrain into my car to make it faster" or "I want to do a swap because I will get satisfaction out of doing the work." My argument is not that it doesn't matter how much you spend to achieve a certain set of criteria with your car, but that diferent sets of criteria can justify different levels of spending.

[Nick Koan]

Just in case you missed post number 10 Kevin, he said his friend isn't going to do it. And I don't think anyone was being ridiculed (not until much later anyway ). They asked for advice, got the advice, and took the advice. And then left the thread for everyone to argue semantics on whats more less-bad or not so good versus stuff.

But yes, I agree, you can justify the cost of anything if you try hard enough. But that also doesn't mean I can't say its stupid if I think it is.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Yes, this is true. But spending somewhat more money to swap the car you own is not so totally foolish it should be ridiculed by those who would not do it, or wish they hadn't. Deciding that you want to take a car you like and make it faster is not equivalent, in my opinion, to simply wishing you had a faster car. "I want a 12 second car" is not the same goal as "I want to take on the project of swapping a totally different drivetrain into my car to make it faster" or "I want to do a swap because I will get satisfaction out of doing the work." My argument is not that it doesn't matter how much you spend to achieve a certain set of criteria with your car, but that diferent sets of criteria can justify different levels of spending.

Having done a swap in a car that I could have just purchased from the factory, I can without a doubt tell you that it is foolish.

It's one thing to do a swap to get something you can't get otherwise, and another if the swap is the cheaper method of getting to your goal, but to spend more money on an inferior product is pretty much the definition of foolish. It's something that cost me tens of thousands of dollars to learn... and is still costing me money well after I learned my lesson.

[BOO]

energizer bunny and this thread

[BOO]

Originally Posted by JC

That's not really what I meant. Rewarding yourself for working really hard by splurging a little to buy a WRX is the kind of excess that makes life fun and makes you stay focused on your goals. Blowing a ton of cash on a TS because you wished you had bought a WRX is foolish. There is a difference between spending a little more for something you really want and dumping cash in poorly thought out decisions. Like I bought myself the EVO because I had busted my ass in college for 6 years. It's still a reliable car, seats 5, and is safe(ish). So it's meets the basic criteria that I need for a car but with a little extra something for my hard work. Yes it's expensive for a person who just graduated but it's an excess that is OK. I could have gone and bought a Cayman or even a 911 Carrera. I still could have swung the payments but it would be a poor financial and logical decision. Financial life is about moderation, not excess in either spending direction.

seccs-y quote of the year

[JC]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Yes, this is true. But spending somewhat more money to swap the car you own is not so totally foolish it should be ridiculed by those who would not do it, or wish they hadn't. Deciding that you want to take a car you like and make it faster is not equivalent, in my opinion, to simply wishing you had a faster car. "I want a 12 second car" is not the same goal as "I want to take on the project of swapping a totally different drivetrain into my car to make it faster" or "I want to do a swap because I will get satisfaction out of doing the work." My argument is not that it doesn't matter how much you spend to achieve a certain set of criteria with your car, but that diferent sets of criteria can justify different levels of spending.

no

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JC

no

I'm going to start arguing like this more often.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by JC

no

I know you are but what am I.

[100_Percent_Juice]

This is how life works. You buy some object in your life and are totally happy with it and it acomplishes its purpose. Lets call that object [A]. Later in life when you have a different outlook you might say "hey all my friends have object [B] and I would like one too." I could buy object [B] or I could put some money into object [A] and make it object [B]. $+A=B. Then your faced with several questions...
Does the end result justify the time and effort put into the project?
How can I get [B] while spending the least amount of money?
If im going to spend the money to change [A] into [B], does it cost that much more to turn [A] into [C]?

Facts.
Turning [A] into [C] would be awesome but we dont want to spend the money to do so.
Turning [A] into [B] would cost way more then selling [A] and buying [B].
[A] has no sentimental value so there is no reason to spend the extra money trying to save it.

A+$$$$=B
-A=$$
$$+$=B
A+$$$$$=C.
Then the last 2 questions are...

Do you want to pay the $$$$$ to make an awesome sti bugeye wagon?
Are you ok with just buying a wrx wagon?

The answer is...

Dustin:" im just gonna buy another evo"

[JC]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I know you are but what am I.

I'm like rubber you're like glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.