Okay, now what? (sperry's motor tear-down thread)

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

Anytime there's oil/assy lube/anything on the engine block, or exhaust it'll smoke like a SOM-BISH when you first heat it up. I usually spray some WD-40 on engine parts that I have sitting around for a while, like while rebuilding a head and it's gotta sit overnight, just to keep things from getting shitty while exposed to whatever is in the air in the shop. A lot of places do this. If you didn't have any actual leaks causing your smoke, I'd be willing to bet it's just a mixture of any of these elements causing your smoke. Depending on what it is, it can take a while to burn off too...

What sort of thing might be leaking to cause lots of oil smoke? The coolant and oil don't seem to be miking, so I think the head gaskets are probably fine. Would it just be a lack of piston seal? I'm getting around 90-100 psi for cold oil pressure at idle (which is right what I was was expecting), so there's certainly a lot of oil pressure to pump oil into the cylinders, but where could it be coming from? The heads?

Or could this be a valve sealing issue? I've had smoky exhaust before from a loose seal on some exhaust valves... but nothing this smoky.

For now, I'm thinking it's just "normal" burn-off of assembly lube, etc. Once the rings are run enough to start to seal up, if it's still smoky as hell, then I'll worry about what might be wrong.

[ScottyS]

Yahoo!

[SteveM]

So you're talking about oil smoke from the tailpipe or engine compartment?

From the engine compartment, my experience is the same as Cory's, things will f-in' smoke from all the oil and lube on everything. From the tailpipe, don't really know, unless you put a crapload of lube on the rings and valve guides. I guess your turbo seal too.

I've never built a Subaru motor, but I wouldn't idle it too much longer without going out and putting some load on it to seat the rings before the peaks of the hone pattern break down too much. I usually go out and pound the crap out of the engine pretty soon after the first warm-up.

Originally Posted by sperry

What sort of thing might be leaking to cause lots of oil smoke? The coolant and oil don't seem to be miking, so I think the head gaskets are probably fine. Would it just be a lack of piston seal? I'm getting around 90-100 psi for cold oil pressure at idle (which is right what I was was expecting), so there's certainly a lot of oil pressure to pump oil into the cylinders, but where could it be coming from? The heads?

Or could this be a valve sealing issue? I've had smoky exhaust before from a loose seal on some exhaust valves... but nothing this smoky.

For now, I'm thinking it's just "normal" burn-off of assembly lube, etc. Once the rings are run enough to start to seal up, if it's still smoky as hell, then I'll worry about what might be wrong.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by SteveM

So you're talking about oil smoke from the tailpipe or engine compartment?

From the engine compartment, my experience is the same as Cory's, things will f-in' smoke from all the oil and lube on everything. From the tailpipe, don't really know, unless you put a crapload of lube on the rings and valve guides. I guess your turbo seal too.

I've never built a Subaru motor, but I wouldn't idle it too much longer without going out and putting some load on it to seat the rings before the peaks of the hone pattern break down too much. I usually go out and pound the crap out of the engine pretty soon after the first warm-up.

Smoke is coming out the tail-pipe.

I'm going to try to get it down to a dyno ASAP for break-in. I just wanted to make sure it runs before I spend the time to haul it over the hill only to find out it won't start.

[SteveM]

Yeah, wasn't trying to sound negative, just wanting to see it come out well.

Originally Posted by sperry

Smoke is coming out the tail-pipe.

I'm going to try to get it down to a dyno ASAP for break-in. I just wanted to make sure it runs before I spend the time to haul it over the hill only to find out it won't start.

[SteveM]

crap ninja edit gone bad.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Yeah, wasn't trying to sound negative, just wanting to see it come out well.

I didn't think you were being negative at all!

I'm all for advice from the folks that have done this stuff before, I want this motor to come out as good as possible! I'd even be willing to take the car out for a jaunt to break things in, but with new injectors and a new turbo, the hydra will need to be remapped for the new hardware, and I'm not comfortable with doing that myself, especially on the street. So I want to get it over to a dyno for a tune and break-in.

[cody]

You're breaking it in on the dyno?

[van]

congratulations on putting together your own engine.

[MPREZIV]

A fair amount of tailpipe smoke is expected too, on a *fresh* engine. For expample, motors I throw in cars here are new, but essentially "broken in" on an engine dyno before I even get them, so there's minimal smoke from the tail. With one that's completely fresh, you'll get a considerably larger amount of smoke until things break in some.

I guess it's hard to say without seeing it myself...

[knucklesplitter]

I've built a few engines in my day (mostly V8 Furd and Chebby). This was a little more tailpipe smoke than I would expect, but still not something to worry about yet. Also saw a small amount of the normal external burn-off smoke too.

[MPREZIV]

Originally Posted by knucklesplitter

I've built a few engines in my day (mostly V8 Furd and Chebby). This was a little more tailpipe smoke than I would expect, but still not something to worry about yet. Also saw a small amount of the normal external burn-off smoke too.

Yeah, like I said, it's hard to say without being there. They're expected to smoke, but it's really just kind of a judgement call as to how much is too much... If it doesn't stop, that's when it's time to worry.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by knucklesplitter

Diesel is either $4.80 or $4.90 in Bridgeport I think.

What kinda boost issue - too much or not enough?

With the boost controller maxed out, we were barely getting to 21 psi. The car was at about 320/320 hp/tq, which is a bunch off from where an FP Green should be running on 100 octane.

So Mike's looking for boost leaks today... could be in my intercooler piping, perhaps one or two of those T-bolt clamps just don't fit quite right and are leaking under boost. Or it could be my stock BOV is finally giving up the ghost and can't hold the pressure. And the last possibility, is that my up-pipe isn't flowing enough so my boost is actually exhaust limited, but I'm thinking that's the less likely scenario.

So, they'll pressure test the intake and find any leaks, but I'm leaning towards the issue being the BOV. Since I've got a Hydra, there's no reason not to got to a simpler vent-to-atmosphere BOV that can hold more boost than the stock valve.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by sperry

And the last possibility, is that my up-pipe isn't flowing enough so my boost is actually exhaust limited

Wouldn't that only hurt spool, not peak boost?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Wouldn't that only hurt spool, not peak boost?

Well, if it's shifting my spool up to the point where I get to peak boost at 8000 rpm, then what's the difference?

[JC]

How big is your downpipe? I would surprised if it limits boost that much.

Originally Posted by sperry

Since I've got a Hydra, there's no reason not to got to a simpler vent-to-atmosphere BOV that can hold more boost than the stock valve.

I guess a bug eye owner's mods always come full circle. Start with putting on big ass rims, end with putting on a BOV. Think of how much money you would have saved if you had just given in and threw on 18s, an intake, catback, and BOV in the beginning like every other bugeye owner does.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JC

How big is your downpipe? I would surprised if it limits boost that much.



I guess a bug eye owner's mods always come full circle. Start with putting on big ass rims, end with putting on a BOV. Think of how much money you would have saved if you had just given in and threw on 18s, an intake, catback, and BOV in the beginning like every other bugeye owner does.

I don't think my downpipe is the issue (it's an Invidia TBE), it's the up-pipe that may be limiting it. That's a Perrin deal from a few years back. People are running some bigger diameter up-pipes these days for larger turbos with good success.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't think my downpipe is the issue (it's an Invidia TBE), it's the up-pipe that may be limiting it. That's a Perrin deal from a few years back. People are running some bigger diameter up-pipes these days for larger turbos with good success.

It makes 100% more sense when I read it again and realize you wrote up-pipe. It's been a long day.

[knucklesplitter]

Could be a pre-turbo exhaust leak too. Might have to be a big noticeable one though.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by knucklesplitter

Could be a pre-turbo exhaust leak too. Might have to be a big noticeable one though.

I'm sure I would have been able to hear a leak that bad since I was standing next to it on the dyno during the pulls. Last time I had one that big, it was because the flex-joint in my Vishnu up-pipe blew apart. The car sounded like a tractor.

[MikeK]

Did you evict the family of badgers that was living in the turbo while it was in my garage before you installed it?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Did you evict the family of badgers that was living in the turbo while it was in my garage before you installed it?

I think it was gerbils in his tail pipe.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Did you evict the family of badgers that was living in the turbo while it was in my garage before you installed it?

No, but I did have to flush out the peanut and sunflower seed shells that were left by the mouse living in my radiator while it was on the garage floor all winter long.

[Kevin M]

That's friggin' awesome.

[sperry]

Just got an email from MikeW... the car's intake piping is not leaking, but he says my MBC was clogged! I guess when I hosed all the oil out of it w/ brake kleen I didn't get it all, or maybe a mouse was storing nuts in there too. Either way, he says the car is making boost now, and he's wrapping up the tuning on it today. Hopefully we're set.