GT4 Challenge

[GarySheehan]

Some gamers claim that the controller is faster than the wheel because it allows faster corrections. Even if the controller was faster around the track, I wouldn't use it. I like GT4 because in some ways it's a lot like driving, and I don't drive with joysticks.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

[sperry]

Originally Posted by GarySheehan

That was cool watching your vid. I saw 3 things we did differently. I downshifted to 3rd in turn 1 where you stayed in 4th. Your line in 5 is a bit tighter than mine and finally, I downshifted to 3rd in the hairpin and you visited 2nd for about a second.

Looks like we're taking turn 6 identically. I think you've got me beat in turn 5 more than I've got you beat in the hairpin. Everything else looks the same.

You DID figure out the trick to that car That understeer's not so bad, is it

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

The shift into 2nd at the hairpin was actually a misshift... I was about .2 ahead of my 0.679 and went too deep into the hairpin, then over tapped my downshift and ended up in 2nd. You'll notice I popped it back into 3rd immediately. The reason I kept driving after turning that 0.603 was because I knew there was a 0.5xx, maybe even a 0.4xx, in the car... all I needed to do was duplicate my 0.603 lap w/o screwing up the hairpin.

The line in to T5 was what made all the difference in my lap times. I took the idea that the straight between T5 and T6 is so short, there's no reason to try to keep my speed up, so I started trying to extend my top speed run down the back straight into T5 as much as possible. Turns out you don't really give up much, as I was still getting into 5th gear before T6.

T6 is still the hardest corner for me. It seems like sometimes I'll drive it exactly the same way, but the car pushes and won't come back to the 2nd apex, othertimes I'm all over the curb too early. It takes very tiny input differences at turn in to make huge differences in what you can do with the car on exit. I think that corner would be a lot easier if the game allowed you to turn your head and look at the track-out of the corner... it's hard to make those tiny mid-corner corrections based on the track directly ahead of the car. Same goes for the hairpin.

Driving aids suck... according to the game, they use the ABS system to control traction, understeer and oversteer... so by definition you can't be as fast with them as you can be without since you're turning some of the power that should be accelerating the car into hot brakes. Even spinning the wheels, you seem to accelerate faster w/ TC off than with it on. And the push/spin assistance just makes the car react inconsistantly IMO. I always turn them off. However, the rules of the challenge allow people to turn them on if they want 'em. Same goes w/ the auto tranny... it's there if you want it, but I think it slows you down in the long run.

The Miata is a really fun car in GT. Low power, so you *have* to be smooth. Plus it oversteers very consistantly and controlably... but don't drift it too much or you can't accelerate! It's all about finding the optimal slip-angle for each corner so the car will turn well without bogging and losing power. The only thing I really wish we could change is the shift time between gears... shifting mid-corner takes so long the car decelerates, shifts weight forward and starts to oversteer! Driving the Miata at Seattle is going to be a hoot... the bumpy busstop over the railroad tracks is going to make keeping the rear of the car behind the front a challenge!

[JonnydaJibba]

I don't understand why GT doesn't have ABS. You know that book that came out for it? I think it's a Prima guide, well anyway it says to use "poor mans ABS" and tap the brake repeatedly. HOW STUPID, for a "real" driving simulator that's freakin retarded.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by JonnydaJibba

I don't understand why GT doesn't have ABS. You know that book that came out for it? I think it's a Prima guide, well anyway it says to use "poor mans ABS" and tap the brake repeatedly. HOW STUPID, for a "real" driving simulator that's freakin retarded.

Um... it does have ABS... it's virtually impossible to lock up in GT4! Plus if you've got the brake balance controller, you can adjust not only the brake bias, you can intensify the ABS.

[JonnydaJibba]

WHAT?! Are you sure? My book (the official stategy guide, its pretty gay don't get it) says the game doesn't have it, and yeah it's hard to lock up the tires, but you never feel the ABS. I dunno how you'd feel it grab the brakes in a game though.

Actually I lock up the tires in race cars a lot. I'll like brake super hard and crank the wheel and the car just goes straight into the gravel with tires screeeeeching. Sometimes when I need to break real quick or if I need to save my car from going off track I tap the brake repeatedly and it stops a lot better. Poo mans ABS, coined by Gran Turismo itself (lame).

[GarySheehan]

Originally Posted by JonnydaJibba

I don't understand why GT doesn't have ABS. You know that book that came out for it? I think it's a Prima guide, well anyway it says to use "poor mans ABS" and tap the brake repeatedly. HOW STUPID, for a "real" driving simulator that's freakin retarded.

I wasn't aware there wasn't ABS, or that you could overbrake the car. I typically just mash the brake pedal to the floor. I'm going to have to experiment with that! If the car slows down faster at partial brake, Imma be pissed because I've been giving up a lot of time on the track.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

[GarySheehan]

Originally Posted by sperry

T6 is still the hardest corner for me. It seems like sometimes I'll drive it exactly the same way, but the car pushes and won't come back to the 2nd apex, othertimes I'm all over the curb too early. It takes very tiny input differences at turn in to make huge differences in what you can do with the car on exit. I think that corner would be a lot easier if the game allowed you to turn your head and look at the track-out of the corner... it's hard to make those tiny mid-corner corrections based on the track directly ahead of the car. Same goes for the hairpin.

The Miata is a really fun car in GT. Low power, so you *have* to be smooth. Plus it oversteers very consistantly and controlably... but don't drift it too much or you can't accelerate! It's all about finding the optimal slip-angle for each corner so the car will turn well without bogging and losing power. The only thing I really wish we could change is the shift time between gears... shifting mid-corner takes so long the car decelerates, shifts weight forward and starts to oversteer! Driving the Miata at Seattle is going to be a hoot... the bumpy busstop over the railroad tracks is going to make keeping the rear of the car behind the front a challenge!

I noticed that you are aware that some cars like brake and throttle overlap. With the Opel Astra, that's how you get rid of the understeer. Transition to full throttle while trailing on the brakes transfers weight to the rear with a nice slip angle on the rear tires. Nearly eliminates all understeer.

Yeah, the Miata is VERY touchy. You're going to find that your fastest laptimes will be without tire squeel mid-corner.

Have fun!

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

[cody]

Originally Posted by GarySheehan

Cody,

We can give you some tips if you want, to help get you up to speed.

There were definitely some tricks to that last car that made huge time gains.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

My main problem is consistency, so I don't know if there's much you can do to help me with that. Also, my wheel is old and beat up. It's got play so that when you're going straight, the car tries to develop speed wobble and the only way to avoid it is to keep steering slightly right and left.

But if I ever get to the point where I feel like I'm actually on the right line, I'll upload a video of my lap so you guys can critique me. Thanks for the offer.

[bemani]

after 15 laps my best is only 1'49.180

[sperry]

Originally Posted by GarySheehan

I noticed that you are aware that some cars like brake and throttle overlap. With the Opel Astra, that's how you get rid of the understeer. Transition to full throttle while trailing on the brakes transfers weight to the rear with a nice slip angle on the rear tires. Nearly eliminates all understeer.

Yeah, the Miata is VERY touchy. You're going to find that your fastest laptimes will be without tire squeel mid-corner.

Have fun!

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

I left foot brake exclusively, and brake overlap almost without exception in GT4. It's something I wish I could translate to my real life racing, since a little LFB would help me turn the car while keeping the boost up. For some reason I just don't have the same feel for the brake in a real car and always over do it and upset the handling... I guess I need more practice. Right now the only thing I'm comfortable using my left foot for is shifting, and clearing the knock-back after the corkscrew at Seca. I think the difference is that on the games, braking is the modulation of a lever by position, while in the car braking is the modulation of a lever by pressure. I never taught myself to pressure modulate w/ my left foot. I need someone to make a pressure sensative brake pedal for the computer!

And I don't think you're giving up anything by stomp braking in the game Gary. If the car's going straight, I've never had the tires lock up by putting the pedal on the floor. Pulsing the brakes might help avoid understeer if you're trying to brake at the limit and turn, but if you're having to do that, you're just going too fast into the corner IMO.

[GarySheehan]

I'm rolling off the brake after turn-in anyway, so it's not been an issue.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

[GarySheehan]

1:48.407 and I keep making BIG mistakes.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

[cody]

First post is updated. Please let me know if everything looks Kosher.

[cody]

Damn that's a lot of fun! I've never used this track or this car before.

1'56.200 is my best out of 23 laps.

[cody]

Oh, and I tried overlapping break and throttle and it really seemed to help settle the chassis when the car understeered.

[bemani]

Finally broke into the 47.

[cody]

Damn Bemani, that's fast. I'll put some more laps in tonight. If I can break into the 1'52's tonight, I'll be stoked.

[Ezdno]

Ok I set my car and game up to this challenge, and lets just say I was all thumbs. I did a 30 lap run with Soft Tires, 187hp, Automatic, my first 15 or so laps avg'd around 2.48.whatever whittled it down to 2.14.whatever..at the finish. But I can only say one thing.....Uh Oh....better get maaco. This controller sucks, cant wait till I get my steering wheel......I would love to know what you are running when you use the normal controller rather than the steering wheel.

[sperry]

Everyone keeps asking what the wheel guys are running with the controller... frankly, you're not gonna get an answer... if you're used to the wheel you won't ever bother going back to the controller. It's like long time skiiers that try to take up snowboarding... why waste a day on the mountain falling on your butt when you could be flying down the hill on skis.

If you're waiting for my times with the controller vs. the wheel to help you decided if a wheel is worth it, you're wasting your time. Figure 1 second slower for every 10 seconds per lap... I hate the controller for driving games, and haven't used one since 1998. I *suck* with the controller. So I guess you should just go get one 'cause you'll be 12 seconds a lap faster, right?

[cody]

Dean, you may want to try earning some licenses in GT mode to help you get the feel for the game. They helped me a lot...but they were a lot easier once I got my wheel.

1:54.508 is my best lap out of the 27 I did tonight. I'll go do a couple laps with the controller and let you know what I get Dean.

[cody]

Ha, funny you should use the ski/snowboard analogy Scott. My buddy who used to always kick my ass on skis has taken up boarding and it sucked waiting for his slow ass all last Sunday when he came up.

[cody]

Ok, 11th lap with the controller, I ran a 1:58.372. That's an extra 3.864 seconds (about 3.4% more time). It really doesn't prove anything though; I only ran 11 laps and my wheel isn't the best.

[bemani]

I just did 3 laps with the controller, 1'49.304. My steering wheel time is 1'47.953 after 35 laps or so.

[JonnydaJibba]

I used Cody's wheel for a few laps last time I was over there, and I felt like I was retarded. Not because of the wheel, but because I wasn't used to it. I know though that if I kept practicing I'd get better at it, but for those few laps I was all over the place.

[cody]

Originally Posted by bemani

I just did 3 laps with the controller, 1'49.304. My steering wheel time is 1'47.953 after 35 laps or so.

Damn, your controller time still kicks ass.