Econobox research - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-14, 07:40 AM

Okay, so we're looking into getting another car since our Mazda is getting closer to death with each passing day. And by "closer to death" I don't just mean it's falling apart, I mean I may put a brick on the gas pedal and run the goddamn thing off a cliff because I'm so fed up with it. So anyway...

We're looking into econoboxes that get good mileage, like maybe a late 90s/early 00's Honda Civic. Laura likes them because they're "cute" & get good mileage. I like the thought because what little I've read about them says that they're reliable (which means I won't lose any wrenching time on the Mustang taking care of her car all the time) and you can get them for under $10k with decent miles on the clock. I figured you guys might know more about these cars than I do, since they're part of the 4-banger world. :wink: Anyone have the low down on these cars? Reliability? Ease of component replacement? Any other suggestions on cars that are comparable? Thanks...

smokenawd · 2004-07-14, 07:48 AM

I have a 88 Civic DX HB with over 330K miles. The car is still on its original engine and trans. I have replaced the wter pump, timing belt (three times since I have had it) and starter since I had it and thats it. The thing still runs like a champ but burns oil. But at 330K, a quart every two weeks is nothing.
I have owned this pile of heap and another 89 Si and both are bulletproof. The 89 hit a cow head on and still ran fine....although severly pulling to the left. For an econobox, the 88-91 civic HB is a great deal. most could be picked up for less than 4K, in decent condition. My last HB I bought for $500 is still my daily driver.

sperry · 2004-07-14, 07:53 AM

Remember my '88 Legend? That car was just an upscale Honda Accord. If you can find a V6 Accord from the yearly 90's you'll probably get a decent car. However, I'd bet a newer Civic (late 90's) would cost the same, last longer, and get better fuel mileage.

ArthurS · 2004-07-14, 07:59 AM

My friend has 2 '88 CRX's that have been through hell and back and still run pretty good for each having over 150k on the clock and multiple accidents.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-14, 08:06 AM

If we got an EX coupe we could be straight up ricers in our Civic... VTEC-ahhh!!

sperry · 2004-07-14, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

If we got an EX coupe we could be straight up ricers in our Civic... VTEC-ahhh!!

Now your talkin! Laura really needs a Civic w/ a whale tail, and a fart-can exhaust. Plus I'm sure all the boys out at the Mustang shop will love to have it coming around.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-14, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Laura really needs a Civic w/ a whale tail, and a fart-can exhaust.

Something like this?

MikeSTI · 2004-07-14, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Laura really needs a Civic w/ a whale tail, and a fart-can exhaust.

Something like this?

yah but a civic instead of a VW

thats a funny pic

dknv · 2004-07-14, 08:55 AM

Austin, do you get Consumers Reports? If it were me, I'd be looking at the used car guide in the annual car issue, to see what's reliable & safe.

If you're going nippon anyway, get an impreza

.

sperry · 2004-07-14, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknv

Austin, do you get Consumers Reports? If it were me, I'd be looking at the used car guide in the annual car issue, to see what's reliable & safe.

If you're going nippon anyway, get an impreza

.

Nah.. he's have to get an '02 RS or TS wagon... and those are too expensive compared to the equivalent Honda. SLO != AWD country... why pay the premium?

Nick Koan · 2004-07-14, 09:15 AM

3 years ago I got a 93 Corolla wagon for $5.5k. It doesn't look like it will die anytime in the near future, and I haven't had to do anything more then oil changes to keep it running.

And if you are spending upwards of $10k, you could probably get a much newer one, with less miles and whatnot.

sperry · 2004-07-14, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nKoan

3 years ago I got a 93 Corolla wagon for $5.5k. It doesn't look like it will die anytime in the near future, and I haven't had to do anything more then oil changes to keep it running.

And if you are spending upwards of $10k, you could probably get a much newer one, with less miles and whatnot.

Yeah, Toyota's will last just like Hondas.

I just hit up Edmunds for their list of "best used car bets" where they rate the best used cars from 1997-2002.

Economy Car: Honda Civic
Midsized Car: Toyota Camry
Large Car: Ford Crown Vic
Luxury Car: Lexus ES 300
Sports Car: Mazda Miata

Here's what they said about the Civic and the Camry:

Quote:

Economy Car: 1997-2002 Honda Civic
2002 Honda Civic For years, it's been the Civic and Toyota's Corolla fighting for the title of best economy car. Both are wise choices from a strictly utilitarian point of view; they're frugal with fuel, require minimal maintenance and are reliable. That said, the Civic gets our vote because it offers a few things that the Corolla line lacks: a sportier driving feel, a coupe body style in addition to a sedan and, in 1999 and 2000, an Si version of the coupe that boasts a sizzling 160-horsepower inline four and a taut handling-biased suspension.

Midsize Car: 1997-2002 Toyota Camry
Fine build quality, legendary reliability and a hushed ride characterize the Camry. Though the arch rival Honda Accord may offer a more sporting drive, we picked the Camry based on its more serene cabin and compliant ride, qualities that are typically more appreciated in a family midsize car than apex-strafing ability. The Camry was redesigned in 1997 and this generation lasted through the 2001 model year, meaning all of these years are equally strong picks. An all-new Camry bowed for 2002, offering even more refinement and better driving dynamics.

Kevin M · 2004-07-14, 02:24 PM

I would take the equivalent Corolla over a Civic every time. They match up very well in reliability, economy, and safety, but you'll pay $1500 less for the Corolla. Also, The late 90's Geo Prizms were rebadged Corollas, and you can save even more on those while still buying "american".

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-15, 12:10 PM

Thanks for all the input, we're gonna look at Corollas too since they look pretty damn equivalent & also cheaper (always good).

sperry · 2004-07-15, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Thanks for all the input, we're gonna look at Corollas too since they look pretty damn equivalent & also cheaper (always good).

I think a '98 to '00 Corolla would be a pretty decent commuter car!

Plus they're mad tite y0!

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-15, 01:16 PM

Dizam, we could be Big Pimpin in one of those...

sperry · 2004-07-16, 11:26 AM

Hey Austin:

Someone's selling a '96 Civic DX 5MT 4-door, white, new tires, here at work for $3500. Assuming that it's in decent condition with (I'm guessing) about 100,000 miles, that's a pretty fair price according to Edmunds.com.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-16, 01:54 PM

That's pretty cheap, but DX != VTEC... plus it's got a bunch o' miles and probably needs its timing belt replaced.

sperry · 2004-07-16, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

That's pretty cheap, but DX != VTEC... plus it's got a bunch o' miles and probably needs its timing belt replaced.

I don't know the actual mileage, I was guessing. I didn't think a timing belt on a Honda was hard to do. Good luck finding a VTEC Honda that's not pre-riced out. You gotta buy them new.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-16, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't know the actual mileage, I was guessing. I didn't think a timing belt on a Honda was hard to do. Good luck finding a VTEC Honda that's not pre-riced out. You gotta buy them new.

We just test drove a normal 2000 VTEC Civic the other day here in town - the EX model has a SOHC VTEC motor standard. It's the Si model with a DOHC motor that I think is difficult to find.

I don't wanna have to replace a friggin timing belt on a car for hopefully several years at least. Don't get me started on timing belts... any design that recommends a 60,000 mile replacement interval or risk destruction of the engine is a bad design, and it seems like almost all of these 4-bangers have them.

sperry · 2004-07-16, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't know the actual mileage, I was guessing. I didn't think a timing belt on a Honda was hard to do. Good luck finding a VTEC Honda that's not pre-riced out. You gotta buy them new.

We just test drove a normal 2000 VTEC Civic the other day here in town - the EX model has a SOHC VTEC motor standard. It's the Si model with a DOHC motor that I think is difficult to find.

I don't wanna have to replace a friggin timing belt on a car for hopefully several years at least. Don't get me started on timing belts... any design that recommends a 60,000 mile replacement interval or risk destruction of the engine is a bad design, and it seems like almost all of these 4-bangers have them.

Are you refering to the Mazda? I thought all Mazda motors were non-interference, so breaking a timing belt is just an inconvience, not motor time.

Kevin M · 2004-07-16, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't know the actual mileage, I was guessing. I didn't think a timing belt on a Honda was hard to do. Good luck finding a VTEC Honda that's not pre-riced out. You gotta buy them new.

We just test drove a normal 2000 VTEC Civic the other day here in town - the EX model has a SOHC VTEC motor standard. It's the Si model with a DOHC motor that I think is difficult to find.

I don't wanna have to replace a friggin timing belt on a car for hopefully several years at least. Don't get me started on timing belts... any design that recommends a 60,000 mile replacement interval or risk destruction of the engine is a bad design, and it seems like almost all of these 4-bangers have them.

Dude, you live in southern california... have you tried checking the difference in insurance between a Civic and all the other cars you are considering? Plus, you're insane to consider getting an Si for daily driver duties, unless you plan to go through a series of them in short order.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-16, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Are you refering to the Mazda? I thought all Mazda motors were non-interference, so breaking a timing belt is just an inconvience, not motor time.

Any of em... I've read that most Honda & Toyota 4-cyl motors are interference designs, so snapped belt = bent valves. As for the Mazda, I don't know... it's about 10-15k past due for a new belt and it could blow sky high for all I care. I've given up on the thought of selling it, we'll probably donate the damn thing.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-07-16, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Dude, you live in southern california... have you tried checking the difference in insurance between a Civic and all the other cars you are considering? Plus, you're insane to consider getting an Si for daily driver duties, unless you plan to go through a series of them in short order.

We live on the central coast, about 300 miles or so from LA. And I'm not looking at an Si at all, just pointing out something about what Scott said.

Kevin M · 2004-07-16, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Dude, you live in southern california... have you tried checking the difference in insurance between a Civic and all the other cars you are considering? Plus, you're insane to consider getting an Si for daily driver duties, unless you plan to go through a series of them in short order.

We live on the central coast, about 300 miles or so from LA. And I'm not looking at an Si at all, just pointing out something about what Scott said.

I would still check the comprehensive rates. Probably not as astronomically different as within LA, but worth checking. And it's too bad about the Si thing, they really are nice cars... for front drive.

2004-07-14, 07:40 AM	#1
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Econobox research Okay, so we're looking into getting another car since our Mazda is getting closer to death with each passing day. And by "closer to death" I don't just mean it's falling apart, I mean I may put a brick on the gas pedal and run the goddamn thing off a cliff because I'm so fed up with it. So anyway... We're looking into econoboxes that get good mileage, like maybe a late 90s/early 00's Honda Civic. Laura likes them because they're "cute" & get good mileage. I like the thought because what little I've read about them says that they're reliable (which means I won't lose any wrenching time on the Mustang taking care of her car all the time) and you can get them for under $10k with decent miles on the clock. I figured you guys might know more about these cars than I do, since they're part of the 4-banger world. :wink: Anyone have the low down on these cars? Reliability? Ease of component replacement? Any other suggestions on cars that are comparable? Thanks... __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-07-14, 07:48 AM	#2
smokenawd n00b Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tahoe City, CA Posts: 8	I have a 88 Civic DX HB with over 330K miles. The car is still on its original engine and trans. I have replaced the wter pump, timing belt (three times since I have had it) and starter since I had it and thats it. The thing still runs like a champ but burns oil. But at 330K, a quart every two weeks is nothing. I have owned this pile of heap and another 89 Si and both are bulletproof. The 89 hit a cow head on and still ran fine....although severly pulling to the left. For an econobox, the 88-91 civic HB is a great deal. most could be picked up for less than 4K, in decent condition. My last HB I bought for $500 is still my daily driver. __________________ 2002 Black WRX Stock

2004-07-14, 07:53 AM	#3
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Remember my '88 Legend? That car was just an upscale Honda Accord. If you can find a V6 Accord from the yearly 90's you'll probably get a decent car. However, I'd bet a newer Civic (late 90's) would cost the same, last longer, and get better fuel mileage. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2004-07-14, 07:59 AM	#4
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	My friend has 2 '88 CRX's that have been through hell and back and still run pretty good for each having over 150k on the clock and multiple accidents. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2004-07-14, 08:06 AM	#5
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	If we got an EX coupe we could be straight up ricers in our Civic... VTEC-ahhh!! __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-07-14, 08:55 AM	#9
dknv EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 39n53, 119w90 Posts: 2,698 Car: RX-8 Class: CS maybe	Austin, do you get Consumers Reports? If it were me, I'd be looking at the used car guide in the annual car issue, to see what's reliable & safe. If you're going nippon anyway, get an impreza .

2004-07-14, 09:15 AM	#11
Nick Koan JDM Cowboy Real Name: Nick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 8,642 Car: 2015 Mazda 3	3 years ago I got a 93 Corolla wagon for $5.5k. It doesn't look like it will die anytime in the near future, and I haven't had to do anything more then oil changes to keep it running. And if you are spending upwards of $10k, you could probably get a much newer one, with less miles and whatnot. __________________ While a standard engine is powered by a belt connected to the crankshaft, a turbo engine runs on its own exhaust steam, making it more energy efficient. -- CNN

2004-07-14, 02:24 PM	#13
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	I would take the equivalent Corolla over a Civic every time. They match up very well in reliability, economy, and safety, but you'll pay $1500 less for the Corolla. Also, The late 90's Geo Prizms were rebadged Corollas, and you can save even more on those while still buying "american". __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-07-15, 12:10 PM	#14
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Thanks for all the input, we're gonna look at Corollas too since they look pretty damn equivalent & also cheaper (always good). __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-07-15, 01:16 PM	#16
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Dizam, we could be Big Pimpin in one of those... __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-07-16, 11:26 AM	#17
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Hey Austin: Someone's selling a '96 Civic DX 5MT 4-door, white, new tires, here at work for $3500. Assuming that it's in decent condition with (I'm guessing) about 100,000 miles, that's a pretty fair price according to Edmunds.com. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2004-07-16, 01:54 PM	#18
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	That's pretty cheap, but DX != VTEC... plus it's got a bunch o' miles and probably needs its timing belt replaced. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."