Doom 3?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Anyone played it yet? If so, what kind of hardware are you running and how is the game speed? My video card has been in the process of crapping out for a few months and now it seems to be accelerating towards the brink of complete death... I need new hardware.

[MikeK]

I have played it on my work PC, which is a dual 2.4GHz pentium 4 with a radeon 9600 XT card ... and decided not to bother anymore. I had to play at 640x480 low details to get any kind of decent frame rate (then again I am a frame rate nazi). I would probably endure the crappy graphics at those settings for multi player, but for single player the first time through I want the full experience! I have decided to put the game aside until I can upgrade my home PC ... i.e. if I can steal my wallet back from my car

Here is a good article on the kinds of frame rates you can get with different hardware: http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0

[ArthurS]

Haven't played it yet, but was going to pick it up soon.

[sp00ln]

I saw it last night... I wasn't impressed. But then again, I'm kinda loosing my video game spirit..

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I saw it last night... I wasn't impressed. But then again, I'm kinda loosing my video game spirit..

That's how I feel... I just can't justify $500 for a video card to play a game that pretty much the same game I played back in 1996. Hell, for the cost of a fast video card, you can pick up 3 XBoxes these days. :shock:

[Kostamojen]

Its not the same game. Its totally different.

If you want to play a game thats actually like Doom/DoomII, play Serious Sam I & II. Doom 3 is more like Halflife, Unreal and a mix of Resident Evil.

Oh and im stuck playing at 800x600 on the low quality setting with a piss poor frame rate with this computer I just got last year

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

That's how I feel... I just can't justify $500 for a video card to play a game that pretty much the same game I played back in 1996. Hell, for the cost of a fast video card, you can pick up 3 XBoxes these days. :shock:

Newegg has 256Mb Radeon 9800 Pro cards for ~$260... that might be what I go with.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Newegg has 256Mb Radeon 9800 Pro cards for ~$260... that might be what I go with.

That's still $100 more than an XBox... and Rally Sport 2 RULES.

[Kostamojen]

I did some research. Skip the 9800's, and go for the new gen cards like the x800 or the 6800. The 6800 GT runs doom 3 at like 1600x1400 at ultra high quality at like 50fps, lol

Xbox = 640x480, and no mouse/keyboard

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I did some research. Skip the 9800's, and go for the new gen cards like the x800 or the 6800. The 6800 GT runs doom 3 at like 1600x1400 at ultra high quality at like 50fps, lol

Yes, and they're also ~$400+, as opposed to the mid $200's that you can get a 9800 for...



Oh yeah, and consoles have teh suck.

[sperry]

Yeah, keep hating on the consoles...

...then name one driving game that's come out on the PC in the last 2 years that's worth a damn.

Now shut up, get an XBox and race me on XBox Live in Rally Sport Challenge 2. That game alone is worth the $200 cost of the game and the machine, assuming you have people to play against... but even the computer racing is fun since rally's all about time trials anyway.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Yeah, keep hating on the consoles...

...then name one driving game that's come out on the PC in the last 2 years that's worth a damn.

Now shut up, get an XBox and race me on XBox Live in Rally Sport Challenge 2. That game alone is worth the $200 cost of the game and the machine, assuming you have people to play against... but even the computer racing is fun since rally's all about time trials anyway.

NASCAR Racing 2003 season and F1-2002. And all the mods that are either out or being written for them.

I can't stand friggin consoles, and especially can't stand their stupid little controllers either. That $200 could be better spent on... well, just about anything else. :wink:

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

NASCAR Racing 2003 season and F1-2002. And all the mods that are either out or being written for them.

I can't stand friggin consoles, and especially can't stand their stupid little controllers either. That $200 could be better spent on... well, just about anything else. :wink:

I'll give you that the consoles don't have any racing simulators that are as good as the ones on the PC... but F1-2002 is out on XBox too, and well I was done w/ NASCAR games right about the same time I stopped watching NASCAR on TV. There's plenty of sweet PC racing games, but none of them are new... my computer from 2000 will run all of them just fine, so I have a hard time justifying a $400 video card.

Meanwhile there are a ton of sweet racing games for the consoles:

Grand Turismo 3
Rally Sport Challenge 1 & 2
Project Gotham Racing 1 & 2
Colin McRae 4
NFS Underground
and GT4 should be out real soon!

Not that any of these games can hold a torch to the simulators on the PC, they are all very FUN and have all come out since the last worth while PC game came out.

Let's face it... the PC as a gaming platform is going away. Consoles are getting the horsepower, and more importantly, the support, to completely replace them. When the next generation of consoles come out, I hope to be able to ditch my PC in favor for a tiny, light laptop and a wicked console that I don't have to think about since it will simply run cool games, fast.

I'll tinker with and spend money on my car. Computers just aren't a fun hobby anymore... not unless someone actually comes out with a hyper realistic driving simulator that's easy to install, run, and update.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

I'll give you that the consoles don't have any racing simulators that are as good as the ones on the PC... but F1-2002 is out on XBox too, and well I was done w/ NASCAR games right about the same time I stopped watching NASCAR on TV.

I'm really not that into the circle track stuff anymore, but the sim itself has a couple of sweet road racing mods for it. Driving a trans-am car around 1967-era Spa-Francorchamps is a lot of fun.

Let's face it... the PC as a gaming platform is going away. Consoles are getting the horsepower, and more importantly, the support, to completely replace them. When the next generation of consoles come out, I hope to be able to ditch my PC in favor for a tiny, light laptop and a wicked console that I don't have to think about since it will simply run cool games, fast.

I'll also give you that PC's, and dealing with their issues, suck large donkey rod. However, my issues with consoles are as follows:

#1:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I... especially can't stand their stupid little controllers either.

This one's a deal breaker for me - I just cannot deal with the controllers on consoles. To me, the control is jerky, imprecise and non-repeatable on every single console game I've played. It's nowhere near a good mouse.

#2:

I mostly like playing strategy games like Total War and racing simulators, neither of which have good equivalents on consoles.

#3:

When I do play something else it's usually a FPS type game like Doom3, Half-life, etc., which I think are best experienced with fine, precise mouse control... which leads back to issue #1.

#4:

The 3rd-person perspective games like GTA which are so popular on consoles lose their entertainment value for me after about 15 minutes, because I just can't immerse myself in the experience unless I'm playing from the 1st-person perspective.

#5:

I already have a PC, and probably always will out of necessity. I'd rather just play games on the hardware I already have rather than clutter up my place with more frigging electronics...

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I'm really not that into the circle track stuff anymore, but the sim itself has a couple of sweet road racing mods for it. Driving a trans-am car around 1967-era Spa-Francorchamps is a lot of fun.

I'll also give you that PC's, and dealing with their issues, suck large donkey rod. However, my issues with consoles are as follows:

#1:

This one's a deal breaker for me - I just cannot deal with the controllers on consoles. To me, the control is jerky, imprecise and non-repeatable on every single console game I've played. It's nowhere near a good mouse.

#2:

I mostly like playing strategy games like Total War and racing simulators, neither of which have good equivalents on consoles.

#3:

When I do play something else it's usually a FPS type game like Doom3, Half-life, etc., which I think are best experienced with fine, precise mouse control... which leads back to issue #1.

#4:

The 3rd-person perspective games like GTA which are so popular on consoles lose their entertainment value for me after about 15 minutes, because I just can't immerse myself in the experience unless I'm playing from the 1st-person perspective.

#5:

I already have a PC, and probably always will out of necessity. I'd rather just play games on the hardware I already have rather than clutter up my place with more frigging electronics...

I concure. I have no interest in consoles, exept perhaps for GT4.

The one thing you really dont get with consoles are all the modified games. Not to mention, a severe lackage in controls (religated to a gamepad) like atomic mentioned.

Plus, unless you have alot of people in/who come to your house and play games, multiplayer console options are rather useless... (yes, there are the online packs, etc., but so far the games are still very limited)

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I concure. I have no interest in consoles, exept perhaps for GT4.

The one thing you really dont get with consoles are all the modified games. Not to mention, a severe lackage in controls (religated to a gamepad) like atomic mentioned.

Plus, unless you have alot of people in/who come to your house and play games, multiplayer console options are rather useless... (yes, there are the online packs, etc., but so far the games are still very limited)

You guys are touching on the biggest things that have changed about consoles in the last year. Because MS has pushed for XBox Live support, there are now actually very few games that aren't, at least in some way, online enabled. You basically can't sell a racing game w/o online support these days. Consoles are becoming less of a "video game machine" and more of an "online gaming appliance".

The whole "modified game" thing has *always* irked me. I hate having to basically be a Unix Administrator in order to play my favorite racing game. Christ, it takes like 40 patches and 500MB of downloads just to get a basic install of GTR for F1-2002 up and running, and don't even get me started on getting my wheel, pedals, and shifter to work.

Which brings up the deal w/ console controllers. The Logitech wheel for my PS2, while not as high-quality, is actually more reliable and consistant than my logitech wheel for my PC. And I think it's only licensing limitations for PS2 that keeps Logitech from releasing their dope PC wheel on XBox. Hell, the next generation wheel that's already out now for GT4 has 900deg of rotation and force-feedback! And of course, if you don't mind going the mod-chip route, there are keyboards and mice for the consoles.

I'll agree that the consoles aren't as good for the 1st person shooter and stragegy games, simply due to input limitations, but that's just a personal preference because I'm used to playing those games w/ a mouse. Millions of people played Halo w/ a gamepad and didn't seem to have any major issues.

So, while a console can't yet do everything a PC can do, the stuff it does do it does so well, I don't really miss PC gaming. I'll never long for the days of network troubleshooting, screwing up a game patch and having to reinstall, harware conflicts, crappy performance, and $1000 upgrades just to play the "latest" game that plays just like theold one but with slightly better graphics. Consoles will end up replacing PCs for gaming, now that they're on the internet.

[MikeK]

Consoles have to be played on a TV at 600*400 or whatever resolution it is. That alone means that I will never own a console. And when I say never, I mean you had better not find this thread and throw it in my face if I ever buy a console

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Consoles have to be played on a TV at 600*400 or whatever resolution it is. That alone means that I will never own a console. And when I say never, I mean you had better not find this thread and throw it in my face if I ever buy a console

XBox outputs to a computer monitor at 1024x768 and to HDTV standards if you have the right adapters. Some games on PS2 output to HDTV standards as well.

Frankly, the difference in realism between GT3 on my 10' projector screen and F1 2002 on my 19" monitor is pretty minor, with the advantage to the larger screen.

All I'm saying is... in a contest for bang/buck, a $150 console *destroys* a PC, considering the video card alone in the PC costs 3 times the console... I used to rule out consoles for gaming because the hardware was nowhere near my top of the line PC. Now that I'm sick and tired of dropping $$$ on my computer and hate maintaining it, and now that consoles are coming with pretty much the same hardware as PCs, consoles are truely viable systems for 100% of your gaming needs. Which also means, you no longer need a $2000 computer... a $1000 laptop will check email, browse the web, and display porn just fine, all in a mobile package.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

...and don't even get me started on getting my wheel, pedals, and shifter to work.

That's your own fault - isn't that contraption a mix of like 2 or three different production wheels that have been hacked apart and re-assembled into your own configuration?

I'll agree that the consoles aren't as good for the 1st person shooter and stragegy games, simply due to input limitations, but that's just a personal preference because I'm used to playing those games w/ a mouse. Millions of people played Halo w/ a gamepad and didn't seem to have any major issues.

Millions of people are also idiots - coincidence? You make the call.

Consoles will end up replacing PCs for gaming, now that they're on the internet.

I know, it's unfortunate and probably inevitable. I guess I'll just have to keep my old PC games around forever and make do with that...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

That's your own fault - isn't that contraption a mix of like 2 or three different production wheels that have been hacked apart and re-assembled into your own configuration?

In its current incarnation, it's basically 3 DirectX devices. The wheel, gas and brake are one device (Logitech Formula Force Wheel). The clutch, and several buttons are another (Thrustmaster Wheel with several of the pots just zip-tied out of the way). And the shifter is its own USB device (Act Labs USB Shifter). The problem is that DirectX and most games simply won't work w/ 3 devices because I have 3 devices. Basically, it's the game programmers that don't have enough foresight to thing, "gee maybe someone will want to use more than one joystick with this game." So, I can currently pick any two devices and have them work fine, but try to use three and one breaks.

Millions of people are also idiots - coincidence? You make the call.

Nice logic... I know you're kidding and that you know better, so I'm not gonna bother getting on you about that fallacy. However, I will reitterate my point. We're used to using a mouse for 1st person shooters... but a FPS that's designed for a gamepad is actually just as responsive as one desgined for a mouse, assuming you can get by the learning curve. I would have to argue that you and I are the idiots because we can't get used to a non-mouse input scheme.

I know, it's unfortunate and probably inevitable. I guess I'll just have to keep my old PC games around forever and make do with that...

I still think Grand Prix Legends is the best driving sim out there, and it's from 1998. No other game generates the visceral response I get from sliding a 1967 F1 car around the original Nurbergring. I just believe that once the "hard core" crowd gets on board w/ consoles, we'll see games like that minus all the hassles of a grassroots mod type installation.

[Kostamojen]

I think you missed my modding point scott. I meant games like counterstrike, action quake, etc. where people modify games and make it so that just your one game has even more extended playability because a whole bunch of mods end up showing up that make that one game far more interesting to have. Heck I spent hours downloading new ship models for Homeworld just to try them out in the game and quite a bit of time making my own skins for FPS's. I cant do that with a console... You get just the game you got, and thats it.

Plus, I think I would be more interested in a console if they had games I was interested in... GT4, like I said, is the only game that makes me even think about getting a console... Although, there was a gameboy advance on clearance for $35 I almost bought

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

I would have to argue that you and I are the idiots because we can't get used to a non-mouse input scheme.

I had another thought on this last night. The fact that millions of people have gotten used to the control on consoles doesn't mean that it's a good design; people can adapt to use anything you give them, whether it's crap or pure gold. I can sling our POS Mazda around a corner at the limits of its tire adhesion - but that sure as shit doesn't make it a racecar.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I had another thought on this last night. The fact that millions of people have gotten used to the control on consoles doesn't mean that it's a good design; people can adapt to use anything you give them, whether it's crap or pure gold. I can sling our POS Mazda around a corner at the limits of its tire adhesion - but that sure as shit doesn't make it a racecar.

1) People will race *anything*, even POS, beat-down 626's.

2) Console controllers are *very* good for games like sports and action games, which is what they were designed for. So it's not a bad design, it's just being mis-used for the racing genre.

3) The best interface for FPS is a head-tracked helmet display and a gun mockup. The CRT + mouse is actually pretty crappy for immersion, even if it is quite accurate.

4) ???

5) profit!!

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

3) The best interface for FPS is a head-tracked helmet display and a gun mockup.

Build me a good one and I'll try it.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Build me a good one and I'll try it.

We had a head tracker at Poly, I wrote a Java3D interface for it for "walking" around archetectural models. Even on the slow-ass Suns we had there, it was pretty immersive.