Autocross Tires

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

That would be cool. Just gatta know when they are coming up and all. Maybe by then my car will be a little better then stock.

Any suggestions on the wheels? Are Prodrive P-7's alright? I was looking around and those seemed to be pretty good for the price. I want something heavy and strong, since the rim one of my old cars got cracked hitting a curb.

P7's definately fill your "heavy" requirement, but I don't know that they're any stronger than other cast aluminum rims. Remember, the heavier and the larger the rim, the more it effects your acceleration. That's why most people drag on stock rims, they're light and small. I put 18"x7.5" rota Sub-Zero's on my car, and my acceleration's noticeably slower. Plus the ride's a little harsh... but they look DOPE! P7's are in the same boat: they look dope as hell, but the stockers will be faster.

I'm hoping to get a set of Rota Attacks in a 17x7.5 size for autocrossing on. I was racing on the stock rims and tires all last season (since it was my 1st season in the WRX I didn't want to jump right in on R compound tires). The rims are great acceleration-wise, but you really need some R compound race tires with super stiff side walls. Since I'm planning on running STX class, which is a street tire class, I'm gonna need some 17" rims.

Most of the rims made by Rota are high quality, fairly light, and as strong as most OEM rims (since they make a *ton* of OEM rims too). The Attacks, Battles and Sub-Zeros are all pretty sweet and cheap. Like $500 for a set of 4. At that price, if you dent one, getting a replacement's not bank breaking. While if you go with OZ rims, you can end up paying $300 for just one rim. (But OZ rims are fucking _nice_!)

[ArthurS]

So maybe look into buying a good set of 17" for riding around town, then keep the old ones and get new tires for them for autocrossing? Don't get me wrong, the stock tires look alright, but going through tirerack.com, there are so many more that look 10 times better.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

So maybe look into buying a good set of 17" for riding around town, then keep the old ones and get new tires for them for autocrossing? Don't get me wrong, the stock tires look alright, but going through tirerack.com, there are so many more that look 10 times better.

I intentionally autocrossed on the stock tires for a season. Autocrossing can eat tires, especially the softer expensive ones. I'd run the stock tires up around 44psi (which is basically their max pressure) to help avoid sidewall roll. Better tires make a world of difference, but getting used to the car at lower speeds will make you a better driver. Plus, the way I figured, the stock tires are free at this point, no reason to throw them out before you wear them out.

There's always the chance that you'll hate autocrossing too, so it'd suck to pay for new tires you'll never use. Do what I did, buy a set of nice rims for daily driving, like those P7s (or in my case some 18" Sub-Zeros), and get some decent, but not super expensive tires for them (I got Kuhmo 712s great untill it's cold). Then race for a season on the stock tires, and wear them out. When next winter rolls around, get some studless snow tires for the stock rims (since the P7's won't be good for the snow, unless you get some real expensive all season tires). Then after the winter get some rims and tires specifically for autocrossing.

At least that's my plan! Everyone should have 3 sets of rims!! I've got the 18" sub-zeros w/ Kuhmo 712s, stock rims with Blizzack snow tires, and I want to buy some 17x7.5 Rota Attacks w/ Kuhmo Victoracers for autocross.

[ArthurS]

I wasplanning on only having 2 sets, but getting the ultra-high performance allseason tires for the P7's, and some better winter tires for the stock ones (after I wear these out). Is the ultra-high-performane ALL-SEASON tires, just a gimmick, or do they do well performance wise and have the allseason capabilty? Or should I look into a 3rd set of rims....

This is what I was planning,

Prodrive P7's on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Size:225/45YR17
* For city driving, summer seasons, winter season?
Stock Wheels, stock tires
* For autocross? winter season?

Still not sure, but they said the Michelin's were all season. Don't know if that means the are good winter tires.

[ArthurS]

These look pretty good also for Ultra-high-performance all-season tires:

Sumitomo HTR+ Size:225/45WR17

Any good?

[sperry]

I don't know how good the all season performance tires really are. I've always figured that snow traction and tarmac traction were pretty much polar opposites, so by going with one tire for both, you're sacrificing on both. Of course, once set of tires will cost less, but for not a lot more you can have two cheaper sets that will perform better at both ends.

I know that the Kuhmo 712s that I have are useless in the cold (not only snow, but when the temp's around freezing they drive like blocks of plastic), my Blizzaks are just about the same as the stock re-92 in the dry, but they OWN the snow and ice. Both sets of tires cost a total of about $1000. You can prolly pick up some decent high performance all season tires for like what $800? So that extra $200 gives me superior performance in all conditions, as long as I don't mind swapping rims.

Remember tires are the only part of the car that actually contact the road. No matter how good you can drive, or how trick your suspension is, or how much power your engine puts out, it's all gotta go thru the tires!

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

These look pretty good also for Ultra-high-performance all-season tires:

Sumitomo HTR+ Size:225/45WR17

Any good?

You check out the TireRack reviews?

[ArthurS]

Yea....looked through Tireracks reviews.....I am very lost when it comes to tires. I always went to WalMart and got their 99.00$ for all 4 tires deal. I have always had crappy tires. Now that I have a car that can actually preform (minus my old supra), I would like to have the right tires.

I really like the p7's, even though they will cost a arm and a leg...
The stock tires/wheels I plan to keep on during the winter...

1.) SO maybe p7's and high performance street tires for summer seasons
2.) Stock rims and tires for the winter season
3.) and maybe ASA JS6 16x7 for autocross. (tire?)

Those ASA's are fairly cheap and light.

[sperry]

I'm not familiar with the ASA's. I'd look at a 7.5" wide rim, since that's the best size for the WRX with a 225 width tire. In autocross, the width of the tire's the most important factor in tire sizing. 16" rims will be okay if you plan to run an autocross tire like the Kuhmo Victoracers, but the'll put you out of the street tire classes (Stock, STX), and into the Street Prep / Modified classes (ESP, ESM).

I'd recommend 17"x7.5" rims with some Kuhmo MX tires for max autocross handling... at least that's my plan. But if you're crunched for cash, and can save big on the 16" ASA's, then that's prolly the way to go. The sidewall flex difference between 16" and 17" is pretty minor, and 16's will accelerate a touch faster. So a light, 7" wide, 16" rim is actually a good bargain.

Make sure when looking at rims for Subaru, you're getting the proper offset. In a 7.5" wide rime the offset should be around 48mm, on a 6.5" wide rim (like the stockers) it sould be around 52mm (I think that's the stocker's offset). If you go too far outside these ranges, then you might have rubbing issues, or you might wear out yer wheel bearings prematurely.

[ArthurS]

Thanks for all the help. My first goal is to get this bumper taken care of. Most of these paint places in town, even the one you referred me too, are still pretty pricy. Either way, I am looking at about 400$ + to fix a tiny ass crack in my front bumper.

I could use that cash in so much better ways. I may just leave the crack there till later on. But it drives me nuts to know that my brand new car has a crack in it.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

Either way, if you're not competitive (and you won't be your first time out... shit, I've been doing this for like 3 years and I'm still slow!) people will usually go out of their way to help you learn. If we all go together, then we can do some ride-alongs to help everyone get a feel for driving fast in small spaces.

Believe him when he says that he's still slow. :wink: When you take that "SLOW DOWN" advice, the thing to specifically remember is to slow down *entering* most corners, especially with a car like the WRX that understeers like a bitch... cause once you come into a turn hot and start understeering it won't stop until you're completely out of the corner. The crowd watching you will be covering their ears trying to keep out the sound of your over-worked front tires screeching their lives away as you plow all the way through. The way to nail down fast times on most auto-x courses is to enter the turns a little slower than you think you should and take a slightly late apex, so you straighten out the exit a bit and get a good boost down the next straight.

[ArthurS]

Well I am really wanted to go to a Autocross.....when is the next one? do you have to join certain clubs?

[sperry]

It looks like a lot of people are interested in going to the next local event... which will probably be in April or so. Unless someone knows of a good snow rallycross in the area.

Course rallycross (off-road autocross) is a different beast than autocross, and I've never done it. It's the autocross off season right now.

[ArthurS]

Yea, I can see how it would be much different....you would need to have different tires and possibly rims for that also I would think.

[sperry]

I hear stock rims and snow tires are a good affordable way to rallycross, but real rally tires have WAAAY more grip, but they're hard to find at an affordable price.

[ArthurS]

I think Ill try just autocross first, then maybe way way down the line, possibly, try the rallycross.

Where, if, did you guys get your tinting done? What percentages and where did you get? I heard Custom Auto Tinting is the place to go, but not sure. I want limo in the rear and maybe 20? in the front.

[sperry]

I found some guy with a tiny shop out near the airport... I don't remember how I found him, but he did a great job on my ride, 35% all around w/ the high-performance metallic stuff.

35% is the NV legal max for the front windows, and I wanted it the same on all the windows. Because it's metallic, it actually looks a little more opaque from the outside. So my car's totally legit as far as the tinting (just don't look at my up-pipe!)

I got a business card at home for the guy that did my tinting, I'll try to find it and post the phone number and address tonight. The guy's pretty cool. $200 even for the 5 windows and the windshield strip. Normally that'd cost more like $300-400 if i'm not mistaken, but it was a cash only deal (you know how we do...)

[ArthurS]

yea that would be cool, try and grab that number for me. I don't trust trimline very much, they screwed up on my friends grand prix. Thats were people have referred my too.

I am not looking to go limo black all around or anything, but would like all windows to be the same.

[dknv]

My experience this year in autocross with wheels & tires:
I ordered an xtra set of rims and tires from tirerack.com to use for autox and track. Because I picked them up at the Sparks location, no shipping charges. (If you live in Truckee, I think there's shipping, but no tax, and the shipping isn't much $ from sparks to Truckee.)

Because I wanted to stay in stock class I got the 16x6.5 Sport Edition Fox 2 wheels for $89/ea. I got the Kuhmo Ecsta V700's for $128/ea. Tirerack mounted & balanced them b4 I picked them up. The combination worked great, I used them for 19 autoX's plus track events at Spring Mtn Raceway and Laguna Seca. I had them flipped 1/2 through the season and for each event I just put the best tires up front so the wear was even.

Some fellow WRX drivers started out the season with Hoosiers, and while they performed great while they lasted, they had to be replaced halfway through the season.
-Debbie

[ArthurS]

Well I don't want to spent too much on the track/autox tires, since I am new at it, and may not to all that often. I do want to have good street tires and high performance wheels. I have seen some pics with the p7's on their wrx's, and I think I am going to go with them. I am not sure of the tire to put on the yet, but I will have some time to figure it out. This is going to be a long winter, and I don't plan on getting them till summer.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dknv

Because I wanted to stay in stock class I got the 16x6.5 Sport Edition Fox 2 wheels for $89/ea. I got the Kuhmo Ecsta V700's for $128/ea.

I thought the V700's were R-compound? Can you run an R tire in DS?

[dknv]

Yes, you can run r-compound in D Stock.
If you stay on street tires Reno has a street tire class, designated by an N. So street tire stock WRX's are NDS. The problem in street tire class is, if you're competing for points, you're competing with all the other street tire vehicles. (Each class has a different pax however, so theoretically the best driver will get the best pax time.)

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dknv

Yes, you can run r-compound in D Stock.
If you stay on street tires Reno has a street tire class, designated by an N. So street tire stock WRX's are NDS. The problem in street tire class is, if you're competing for points, you're competing with all the other street tire vehicles. (Each class has a different pax however, so theoretically the best driver will get the best pax time.)

So, can you run R-compounds in STX? My car's no longer stock... muhahah! Is the NDS and DS division a National thing or just local to Reno, I've never heard of NDS, and I always thought "Stock" meant street tires with a 220 wear rating.

One more thing: how do you like the V700s on a 16" rim? Hows the sidewall flex?

[ArthurS]

So if I raced with street tires, I would go up against all other cars with street tires, but if i race with some tires like the ones you mentioned, who would I go up against then? only wrx's?

[ArthurS]

There is a Tirerack in Sparks? So I could order and just pick them up with no shipping?