Turbo Issue

[cody]

So after I took my 6 runs in the morning, yesterday, I left my car idling, accidentally. I went to shag cones and Amanda stayed on grid. She didn't notice that I had left the car running until, a couple hours later when she saw "a bunch of smoke coming out of the exhaust" and shut it down.

When I started it up and checked I did see a bit of whitish smoke coming out of the exhaust but no hint of sweet coolant smell. It just smelled like fuel...and not even all that much. BTW, don't huff exhaust at home, kids.

So I think everything's probably fine until I come off my first RNP run in the afternoon and when I park it, it's the return of the lovely reoccurring oil smoke-out-the-hood-scoop trick, although I doubt it's related to the old issue, a leaking inlet pipe (now replaced with a Perrin). When I take a look, I see hot smoke coming off the bottom of the turbo. After a couple minutes the smoke subsided and I could see fresh oil on the CV boot below the turbo, but I don't think I lost enough to make a pool on the ground or anything. Later I smelled the oil from the CV boot and it didn't smell strongly so I doubt it's oil from the gearbox filltube, but the gearbox dipstick wasn't pushed all the way in so who knows.

People commented that during my afternoon run, my car was blowing smoke out the exhaust, but I neglected to ask what color, unfortunately. Anybody remember?

So thanks to Kevin and Nina for following me back to Reno from RFR. When I got home, there was no oil smoke. It doesn't seem like I lost very much oil yesterday, maybe third of a quart? From under the car there was a little evidence of oil leaking, but not a lot. The oil on the CV boot had lessened and was no longer wet and shiny. I checked the oil line fitting (banjo bolt?) on the top of the turbo and it was tight. I was looking at my spare stock turbo and there is a two bolt flange fitting on the bottom for oil return (I'm assuming) that could be the culprit. Maybe idling so long vibrated the bolts loose or something. But I can't get to those bolts without removing the turbo, or so it seems.

But what would cause both white exhaust and an oil leak from the turbo or are they unrelated issues or perhaps loosely connected...like oil leaking internally and externally from the turbo and when the internal oil gets burned, it causes knock, causing the white smoke somehow? I don't know.

[cody]

Could it be a headgasket leaking oil onto the turbo (even though I think the turbo is above the head) and leaking coolant in the exhaust (but only when I drive hard, obviously)?

[100_Percent_Juice]

Maybe your turbo to intercooler Y-pipe clamp was loose and blowby was dripping out. I guess that wouldn't explain the exhaust smoke though.

[cody]

That doesn't appear to be the issue, but good thinking. I've had oil (blowby) smoke from the turbo during an autox due to the inlet pipe/turbo clamp loosening, but of course, yesterday when I checked all of the hose clamps I could reach without removing the IC, they were nice and tight...and the one y pipe clamp I can't reach, is on the other side of the motor so I doubt it's the culprit. Also, I'd say it's too much oil to be blowby, but it's not that much so maybe.

It really seems like the oil's coming out of the bottom of the turbo, but I could be wrong since there's not very much and I can't ID the source. Also, when I had my IC off a couple weeks ago (to confirm the damage I had caused to the stock inlet by over tightening the clamp that holds it on the turbo) there wasn't very much blowby in the IC at all. I can see a drop or two causing smoke, but not coating the CV boot below the turbo.

I think this is a leak that only occurs when I'm pushing the car hard. I'm hoping it's a turbo seal or cheaper. I have a lightly used stock turbo ready to swap in, but I'm thinking I'll probably pay to have it installed if it's not too expensive and that's the actual issue, of course.

[cody]

I posted this on Nabisco too and got a response that seems likely:

Originally Posted by WhyHelloOfficer

I am willing to bet this is your culprit.

The two-bolt flange on the bottom of the turbo is your turbo oil drain, however, there is a rubber line that connects the hard line of the turbo oil drain to the hard line into the cylinder head. Over time that piece of rubber hose can/will dryrot and crack from the heat cycling and being so close to the turbo.

Get the car up on jackstands and get underneath the passenger side of the engine where the up-pipe goes into the turbo. Reach up underneath your downpipe for the bottom of the turbo and see if you can feel oil on the drain line. Sometimes it is easiest to just remove the downpipe. Either way, you should have a clamp on on the rubber drain line. If you see any oil on/around that area, I would suggest buying a new piece of hose and getting some worm hose clamps for both ends to ensure it won't leak in the future.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2039428

Thoughts?

[100_Percent_Juice]

I think you should check it out and take a picture of your results.

[cody]

I have hose and clamps that came with the AVO catch can I've never installed. I'll definitely give it a try.

How many miles do people ususally get out of their TD04 when it's been stage 2 most of its life?

[cody]

Is normal black rubber hose okay for this? Should I prime the turbo if I end up replacing the hose? If so, how do I do that? Pull the fuse for ignition or something?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Is normal black rubber hose okay for this? Should I prime the turbo if I end up replacing the hose? If so, how do I do that? Pull the fuse for ignition or something?

Disconnect the fuel pump connector in the trunk (it's in the RR fender on the '02/'03) and crank the car for a while to prime the oil system.

[cody]

Should I use this as an opportunity to change my oil so that I can drain the oil before pulling the hose in order to lessen the amount of oil that comes out if I remove the hose?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Should I use this as an opportunity to change my oil so that I can drain the oil before pulling the hose in order to lessen the amount of oil that comes out if I remove the hose?

I don't really think there's all that much oil in the turbo. Once the motor is off, the oil drains into the pan. Plus, it's not like there's much oil in there to begin with while the motor's running.

Then again, I've never taken a turbo off a motor while it was in the car. I've only done it on an engine stand and by then the motor had been drained of oil already.

[cody]

Makes sense. It's up pretty high. I'm sure priming it is unnecessary too, but better safe than sorry.

[100_Percent_Juice]

If you are in fact getting oil into the exhaust, how would this hose be the culprit? Couldn't this only be the cause of oil dripping ON the turbo/CV below?

[cody]

True. Who knows. The white smoke could have been caused by the idling. Maybe people were seeing smoke coming off the hot turbo and that's what they saw, not exhaust smoke. I don't know.

[Dean]

Smoke would be coming from under the car at speed oil is dripping on anything hot.

That hose has spring clamps on it that should be fine with new rubber as it is only a drain hose. They are hard enough to get to, tightening a regular clamp would be tough in there.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Ah. So the hose that guy is talking about is the one that goes straight down and is a total pain to get the clamp onto. That is a pretty thick hose to rot and crack IMO. I think the problem with that hose is that some people don't get it fitted completely after removing their turbo and oil leaks out the bottom. Something that you probably would have noticed sooner than later.

[cody]

So I finally got some time to climb under the car again this morning to check that oil return line. I think I correctly identified the oil return line that runs from under the turbo to the head. It didn't look oily, but I guess the heat from the turbo could have burned the oil that may have leaked from the top of this line?

I saw the cheesy looking spring clamps...not the stiff ones that I've seen on other hoses on this car, but wiry ones that look like you could remove with your bare hands. The line itself was wider than I expected so I don't think the rubber hose and clamps I had on hand would have worked anyway. Plus I imagine it takes a special hose to stand up to the heat of the turbo. The line was very stiff...it felt like metal unless I dug my nail into it and I could barely tell that it was (or used to be) rubber. Even if it was flexible and I had the proper hose on hand, I don't think I would have been able to replace it from under the car. Access was very limited.

So the car is going back to Kspeed. I'm sure Cory will figure it out and get it all fixed up. I'm bringing my spare turbo too. I figure that the stocker can't have that much life left in it right? After 120K miles with most of them stage 2, I’m surprised the car still runs as strong as ever. Spool is better than ever as well, since the inlet pipe install.

If Cory has to remove it to fix the leak anyway, might as well put the low mileage/stock boosted turbo in there right? I was thinking I'd ask the shop to replace any gasket, hose, clamp, etc that's close to the turbo just to make sure it's all set and dependable again. Thoughts? Should I log the car after the new turbo? It’s the exact same TD04.

[WRX06TR]

Yeah that line sucks! I had a problem with all the turbos I've swapped. I lost one of those weak little pinch clips and never replaced it, but I never had a leak. Cory told me that, that line doesn't really see a "flow" of oil its a severe drip at best, so as long at the line is far enough up on the turbo and the connection to the block is tight it shouldn't leak.

If you want to swap the turbo I won't hurt. Idk if the TD04's fail as often as the VF39's but if the turbo has to come out why not replace it, especially if you have one ready to go in. Plus, your turbo could be losing its seals and blowing a little oil and or coolant into the downpipe and causing it to smoke.

[cody]

Originally Posted by WRX06TR

Yeah that line sucks! I had a problem with all the turbos I've swapped. I lost one of those weak little pinch clips and never replaced it, but I never had a leak. Cory told me that, that line doesn't really see a "flow" of oil its a severe drip at best, so as long at the line is far enough up on the turbo and the connection to the block is tight it shouldn't leak.

If you want to swap the turbo I won't hurt. Idk if the TD04's fail as often as the VF39's but if the turbo has to come out why not replace it, especially if you have one ready to go in. Plus, your turbo could be losing its seals and blowing a little oil and or coolant into the downpipe and causing it to smoke.

My thoughts, exactly.

Interesting that the oil return line doesn't see much pressure. I'm starting to think it's less likely the issue.

[100_Percent_Juice]

I'm just gonna say what we've all been thinking. Cody... you have cancer.

[cody]

Turbo cancer?

[100_Percent_Juice]

Do you want to talk about it?

[A1337STI]

Maybe its just a turbo cold. have you tried given it an aspirin ?



Well you have 4 weeks to cure it so we can have a proper PAX battle again for 14-15

at least you have that back up if there is some major turbo issue. hehe

[ScottyS]

A little late - but I would definitely concur with checking the oil return off the turbo. It's low-pressure, but it can still make a heck of a mess if compromised.

Personally, I use hose clamps, and access them from the back with the car on jacks. It's even easier when the exhaust is off.

[cody]

Originally Posted by ScottyS

A little late - but I would definitely concur with checking the oil return off the turbo. It's low-pressure, but it can still make a heck of a mess if compromised.

Personally, I use hose clamps, and access them from the back with the car on jacks. It's even easier when the exhaust is off.

I checked it. See post 17.

Cory couldn't recreate the issue nor find anything wrong so I guess now I just have to hope it doesn't happen again.