Calling all Subaru owners, Rally Cross in town , HELLO?

[A1337STI]

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...0292C01288C033

Only 4 people from reno are signed up....

lets support our local SCCA efforts !

there's a club car too if you for those of you who lowered their subies and put on autoX suspension.

BTW there's a fellow who has came out to a lot of our sac rally crosses with a full on track suspension with heavy track sway bars. he actually did fairly well, and never damaged his track suspension...

[A1337STI]

I might be willing to let someone Race Betsy , if there is actually anyone in the club interested in driving a subaru , in the dirt...

Kevin? Cory? Scott ? (would you fit?) hehe

also remember I've rally crossed my STI for years, never broke anything, and have Won PAX overall, and had over a half dozen pax podiums last season, and was leading pax briefly .

point in case, rally crossing your car won't ruin your car for autocross (at least in a stock-ish trim) or for getting groceries, if its a DD type car.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

I might be willing to let someone Race Betsy , if there is actually anyone in the club interested in driving a subaru , in the dirt...

Kevin? Cory? Scott ? (would you fit?) hehe

also remember I've rally crossed my STI for years, never broke anything, and have Won PAX overall, and had over a half dozen pax podiums last season, and was leading pax briefly .

point in case, rally crossing your car won't ruin your car for autocross (at least in a stock-ish trim) or for getting groceries, if its a DD type car.

I'm out of town for my nephew's birthday, so even if I wanted to come, I can't make it.

Also, I'm not really interested in driving in the dirt. I prefer the track, regardless of the potential for damage to my (or your, for that matter) car. And it isn't even really the dirt that I dislike... it's the standing around all day for ~10 minutes of racing that I don't like when compared to PDX where I get around 3 hours on track between my car and my student's car as an instructor. It's the same reason I don't autocross these days either.

And just because rally-x won't "ruin" your car doesn't mean it leaves it untouched. I've seen your STi... it's hammered! If you have just one single scratch on it from rally-x, that's likely one scratch too many for some of the folks in the region. People are hesitant just because they're worried they'll completely destroy their car... they also worry about the little cosmetic damage that can occur from sliding around in the gravel/sand.

We've had this conversation a bunch of times before, and I always feel like you think I hate rally. The truth is, I really do hope the Reno rally-x program succeeds... I'm just pointing out why it's fighting an uphill battle. The people that autocross and track days attract (our existing members) are simply not the same people that rally attracts. Rally folks are their own breed that are more like ham radio operators and camping/outdoors enthusiasts than they are motorheads. In fact, the same point can be made about autocross and track. When the track program started up, we really had to twist arms to get autocrossers out there, and even today there are very few people that do both... people have generally picked one or the other, and most the people out at the track are *new* members that started participating specifically because of the track program and not the autocrossers that we convinced to come out and PDX.

Similarly, we're not seeing a big rally-x turnout because rally isn't offering anything to existing members they feel like they're missing, and we're not properly advertizing to new folks that would be interested. Rally here isn't going to grow unless we start bringing in new people that are specifically interested in rally-x. There's no sense in chiding existing members for not showing up... after all, they're already spending their money and volunteering their time to participate in our other programs!

[A1337STI]

we are also seeing some really horrible autox turn out numbers this year, compared to 3 years ago so I'm thinking its just Bad economy bogging things down, and not entirely people saying "autocross has no interest for me"

Originally Posted by sperry

And just because rally-x won't "ruin" your car doesn't mean it leaves it untouched. I've seen your STi... it's hammered!

Yes it is hammered, a very accurate statement, but most of my STI cosmetic damage is actually from Winters in Tahoe , passing SUVs and trucks that are throwing out a spray of slush, gravel and salt, driving super slow, but they slam on the gas as soon as you go to pass them (throwing out even more spray) And also largely due to driving narrow dirt roads where branches and bushes are pressing against my car, as I'm pressing against the gas.

i have rock chips in my windshield from a small filming / stunt thing with a friend when we were doing doughnuts around each other. (closed off private property)

I also crashed my STI into a wall deploying the air bags, and I've jumped it at 100 mph landed on an embedded rock, breaking 2 rims

my concern would be someone reads your comments about "you only have to look at Alex's STI to see what it does to your car" And my uphill battle has just been made a little bit steeper.

Originally Posted by sperry

When the track program started up, we really had to twist arms to get autocrossers out there, and even today there are very few people that do both...

Exactly, I'm just trying to do for Rally cross what you and others did for our track program. Twist a few arms and get people exposed to it. Once a few more of our members come out and actually drive, they can make up their own minds about enjoyment, cost, paint chips, standing around time and decide for themselves if its "their kind of bag baby" !

the only difference is i doubt you had other seccs members posting about why people should avoid the track, in your threads about "please come out to the track"

And yes rally cross can do a bit of paint damage(my car is not a good example, its been abused outside of rally cross A LOT), but blue painters tape around your wheel wells and bottom 2" of your doors will eliminate almost all of the damage. also those strips of magnetic material work awesome to put on the bottoms of your doors.

when you catch me flat out lying about rally cross, post up and call me out. if my post is factual, you could just leave it alone , you're not really helping anyone.

When's the last time i posted anything negative in a track thread you've started

yet you've never left my threads alone... I don't think you hate rally/rally cross. but i do honestly think you are bitter that you and Matt R tried to start a program, and couldn't, and now you have sour grapes, making it impossible for you to resist posting something negative... guess i should feel bad for you

[A1337STI]

honestly, I'm not sure what is it with you. But you make me feel like completely rescinding my offer now ...

hope you're happy!

[silversuby]

How much does it cost to use the club car? I want to see what its like before I take my car out there and see how rough it seems. I've never been to one before. I like track days and autocrosses, lets see how this one goes. Do you have to go both days because I'm only open sunday.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

my concern would be someone reads your comments about "you only have to look at Alex's STI to see what it does to your car" And my uphill battle has just been made a little bit steeper.

Hold on there champ, you brought up your car as the example of how rally-x doesn't hurt it, not me. You're better off using a non-hammered car as your example rather than trying to explain away the damage with the laundry list of other abuse it's suffered. Whether or not it's true, you're hurting your own argument, not me.

Originally Posted by A1337STI

Exactly, I'm just trying to do for Rally cross what you and others did for our track program. Twist a few arms and get people exposed to it. Once a few more of our members come out and actually drive, they can make up their own minds about enjoyment, cost, paint chips, standing around time and decide for themselves if its "their kind of bag baby" !

the only difference is i doubt you had other seccs members posting about why people should avoid the track, in your threads about "please come out to the track"

You're missing my point. My point was that trying to get people out to the track from the autocross program didn't work. The vast majority of people that come out to the track these days joined SCCA specifically for the track program. Sure there are some people that do both, and people that switched over from autocross. But the program is viable *only* because new people joined specifically to run at the track.

Rally-x is likely going to be the same. You can twist other member's arms but in the end rally-x is only going to succeed if you can get new people to join SCCA specifically for the rally-x program. I'm not saying don't try to get existing members out there... I'm saying you should focus on attracting new people that are unaware the program exists. And certainly, don't insult the existing members that already contribute to the SCCA for not being interested.

And the parallel with the track program goes further. We had *tons* of resistance from autocrossers worried about breaking their cars at the track. We learned that there is basically *nothing* we can do to change their minds about it. If someone had unrealistic expectations about the possibility of wrecking their car, nothing we said would change their mind and get them out there. They had to see it with their own eyes that people were attending the events and coming away unscathed. Rally-x will work the same way, but not if the example you give is your STi, for the reasons mentioned above.

And there were in fact people in our threads talking about being worried about the track. Hell, I was one of them: http://www.seccs.org/forums/showpost...17&postcount=9

Originally Posted by A1337STI

And yes rally cross can do a bit of paint damage(my car is not a good example, its been abused outside of rally cross A LOT), but blue painters tape around your wheel wells and bottom 2" of your doors will eliminate almost all of the damage. also those strips of magnetic material work awesome to put on the bottoms of your doors.

when you catch me flat out lying about rally cross, post up and call me out. if my post is factual, you could just leave it alone , you're not really helping anyone.

When's the last time i posted anything negative in a track thread you've started

yet you've never left my threads alone... I don't think you hate rally/rally cross. but i do honestly think you are bitter that you and Matt R tried to start a program, and couldn't, and now you have sour grapes, making it impossible for you to resist posting something negative... guess i should feel bad for you

First, I'm not trying to "call you out" for "lying" about rally-x. And criticism is not necessarily negative. My point is that your acceptable level of damage from rally-x is likely far, far higher than most SCCA-ers. We have people that don't track because they're worried about the damage from going off the pavement. And people that don't autocross anymore because the surface at Stead got loose and they don't want to get gravel damage. You should respect that other people aren't going to agree with you about what's acceptable, and that changing their minds on the concept is going to be difficult to impossible. Pointing out things like the availability of the club car and techniques for taping the car up to protect it are useful... but attacking me for reminding you that some people aren't willing to accept any level of damage is not.

As far as the "sour grapes" comment... If you are really serious about promoting rally-x you'd should be willing to listen to the comments from people that tried it and failed so you don't repeat history. At this point, the Reno rally-x program appears to be on course for failing, and I thought I was perhaps putting out some accurate reasons as to why that's the case. I'm certainly not jealous of a program that's currently failing. In fact, I'm sad that the program isn't growing.

Originally Posted by A1337STI

honestly, I'm not sure what is it with you. But you make me feel like completely rescinding my offer now ...

hope you're happy!

I'm not sure what it is with you either. It seems like any criticism, no matter how constructive, results in you insulting me. Maybe I should learn not to criticize you? Are you trying to teach me that I'm not welcome to post in any thread you've posted in if I've got anything critical to say? 'Cause that's probably not going to be a lesson I'm likely to learn by being insulted.

[cody]

It's pretty simple. Few people argue less than you two. This is just going to happen any time you two aren't on the exact same page with a topic. Hopefully nobody takes anything too personally though. I find it's helpful to say, after reading one of your posts, "That's X for you," (where X is Scott or Alex).

[silversuby]

How much does it cost to use the club car?

[A1337STI]

$20 , and you have to be a full member (can't just do a weekend membership )

[A1337STI]

Originally Posted by sperry

It seems like any criticism, no matter how constructive, results in you insulting me. Maybe I should learn not to criticize you? Are you trying to teach me that I'm not welcome to post in any thread you've posted in if I've got anything critical to say? 'Cause that's probably not going to be a lesson I'm likely to learn by being insulted.

your first post in this thread did contain a few bits that were constructive. but 4 paragraphs just to get "needing to attract people from outside of the scca , and your car is not a good cosmetic example". i think it could have been a bit more pithy

and maybe thrown in a "and btw, while your Autocross results do indeed show that you can rally cross your autocross car and its performance won't suffer... but given your car's cosmetic situation you may want to find a different example, as some people may assume you did all that damage, just rally crossing.

BTW, here is what my STI looked like when it had 2 autoXs and half way through its 2nd rally cross:

wow, my car Used to look good i think even the roof paint looks darker in that picture. i guess 5 years of parking outside, some 300+ trips to ski resorts, driving random dirt roads, rally recce , and rally crossing have sure taken their toll.

Tim ,Heather, and Garth are autocrossers who all have some interest in rallyx. so while asking autocrossers is not in generally going to get many people. it might get a handful. (Garth is going to try to show up one of the 2 days, if work doesn't bog him down)

Also i would think a "subaru enthusiast" club is a great place to scout for people interested in a type of auto racing that subarus excel at. not all of our members autocross, and some of them don't autocross their subarus. Debbie has an outback she does not autocross, for example, does she want to risk paint chips I have no clue, probably not, but if i don't ask/invite i'll never know.

In hind sight instead of posting here, making some cheesy flyer and asking a bunch of Napa and Kragen type stores if i can put up the flyers (and maybe a pick n pull) might attract the type of people i need

also maybe video game stores (16-22 year olds buying Dirt3 and what not )

Where do you think a flyer would be the most successful

Should i make the flyer in a way where there's a part that is removable with basic information ? where to go, when to be there by? or do you think someone interested will take the time to write it down / type it into their phone?

[pomspeed]

Originally Posted by silversuby

How much does it cost to use the club car? I want to see what its like before I take my car out there and see how rough it seems. I've never been to one before. I like track days and autocrosses, lets see how this one goes. Do you have to go both days because I'm only open sunday.

Good to meet you on this forum. It's nice to see a newbie wanting to check out rallycross, now for the funny part. I organize rallycrosses in Sacramento out at Priarie City. I think your questions were answered, but you can go to either day. Good to meet you, hope you like it, you can go for fun runs also, like autocross.

Brent Blakely

[A1337STI]

sort of the course drawing... a bad drawing. we'll run this forward, then after lunch run it backwards. should be around 45-60 seconds per run.. maybe we'll do 8 runs so about 6-8 minutes of seat time. yeeee haw

[pomspeed]

woohoo, looks like fun. I like to use google earth for course maps. Currently listening to wrc germany right now, who needs sleep.

[pomspeed]

bringing my gopro for video to add to my youtube page.

[silversuby]

Originally Posted by pomspeed

Good to meet you on this forum. It's nice to see a newbie wanting to check out rallycross, now for the funny part. I organize rallycrosses in Sacramento out at Priarie City. I think your questions were answered, but you can go to either day. Good to meet you, hope you like it, you can go for fun runs also, like autocross.

Brent Blakely

Yeah! Sweet. I will be there tomorrow. Haha. Are you on dirty impreza? I think I recognize you're name. I went and watched a rallycross at priarie city when I first bought my car and saw all the dirty impreza stickers so I registered on there but mostly just read the posts since its a lot of technical stuff I'm just trying to learn about. And for some reason I always had a conflicting schedule and just sort of got in the habit of auto crossing which for some unknown reason always matched my schedule. But am excited to drive in my first rallycross

[WRXlerate]

My brother and I threw together some spare parts we had laying around to make a runner for this, he was out there on Sat morning in the OD green civic. I had planned on running it with him Sat and Sun but came down with some flu bug crud that made me not want to move. Sad I couldn't make it, it sounds like a ton of fun.
Anyone know who was running registration on Sat morning? My brother paid for 2 days but didn't make it out there today.

[A1337STI]

I think Tim was running Reg. sorry you came down the flue bug

[pomspeed]

Originally Posted by silversuby

Yeah! Sweet. I will be there tomorrow. Haha. Are you on dirty impreza? I think I recognize you're name. I went and watched a rallycross at priarie city when I first bought my car and saw all the dirty impreza stickers so I registered on there but mostly just read the posts since its a lot of technical stuff I'm just trying to learn about. And for some reason I always had a conflicting schedule and just sort of got in the habit of auto crossing which for some unknown reason always matched my schedule. But am excited to drive in my first rallycross

Yep, DI rocks. Glad to meet you up at Fernley, the next event at PC is Sept 17/18. and then a day/night event on Nov 12th and a regular day event on the 13th.

[Libila]

The club car rips.

[silversuby]

So slow but so fun

[A1337STI]

Chad set some really fast times in it! glad you had fun, hopefully you'll come out and play with us again!

[silversuby]

Yeah he did. There went all my excuses of being able to blame the car...I probably will. But most likely not until I find and buy some used struts and springs to put on so I'm not worried about hurting my nice track ones. But I'll probably just use the club car as much as possible because I need the wrx to be able to get me places at least somewhat reliably. It's amazing how much fun you can have in a 100$ car.

[A1337STI]

I have a set of Impreza struts for 93-01, or 02-07 if you don't mind swapping top hats. the fronts came off my FWD car shortly after i bought it (08 ish) and were supposedly recently replaced. the rears came off a 95 at the sparks Pick n pull. I currently have one on my car and its functional.

(I'm not 100% sure they will work for a wagon, wagons might have a wagon specific top hat or something?)

you could mark your struts and camber bolts, and when you swap back your alignment should be very close to what it was when you took it off.

i think the sparks pick n pull charges $38 per "coil over" , and i think Tim has some stockers with Koni inserts for sale (would probably be great, even with stock springs) my rally car is valved very soft, and I think its great for rallyX

lmk if you're interested on that. they are just "useful junk" to me but i'de love to see someone else get into the sport (esp in a wrx ) wrx = LOTS OF FUN in RX ...

[silversuby]

Ok, thanks for the offer and the info. Maybe in a couple of months, we'll see if I'm able to find a job here. Is the club car only available in reno?