Lightweight RWD Subaru? Toyobaru...

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

I was going to say... Who really wants a sub $5k Subaru? Especially when any awd Subaru that barely runs is worth about $3000, I can't imagine what $5k gets you.

...unless you want an svx of course. Because $6k will get you my svx and it's in great shape.

The $5k Subaru would replace the Forester, and basically only be used for days where driving around in a RWD sports coupe I really like is a bad idea.

[Bob Danger]

So if the BRZ is going to be the new entry level sports car for Subaru, what does that mean for the Impreza? Will it become even bigger maybe replacing the Legacy as the middle of the range. Then the Lagacy will become the high end Subaru competing with the larger German saloons.

[khail19]

I don't really consider the Impreza a sports car at all.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by khail19

I don't really consider the Impreza a sports car at all.

This. Even the STI isn't a "sports car." The WRX and STI are plenty fast, but without significant modification they aren't sharp handling cars.

[rory_a]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Sick.

If I didn't need awd, I'd consider that for the next car.

If the BRZ was available in AWD, my parents would probably be on the waiting list for one... Been looking at the blah G37X coupe. I think I talked my dad into an early/used GTR as an alternative though, time will tell.

Originally Posted by sperry

if this car is as fun to drive as the reviews are hinting, and I fit in it, and it's in the $25k range... I may change my plans of picking up an older 911 in favor of a new BRZ.

After close to 20 years of "wanting"/talking about getting a driver 911, and the full build of his old Vette, my dad dropped the idea of getting a 911 as the maintenance isn't worth it to him. Now he's thinking Japanese luxo/sports coupe.

Originally Posted by cody

How does this compare to something like the Hyundai Genesis Coup? Without doing any of my own research, wouldn't the Hyundai be faster for the same money?

The BRZ is about half a foot shorter. There's a pic floating around comparing profiles of BRZ, Miata, Genisis coupe, Mustang - the Genisis and Mustang being nearly the same length, while the BRZ and Miata are close. BRZ is also about 4" narrower that Genisis/Mustang.

[rory_a]

Originally Posted by khail19

I don't really consider the Impreza a sports car at all.

Originally Posted by Kevin M

This. Even the STI isn't a "sports car." The WRX and STI are plenty fast, but without significant modification they aren't sharp handling cars.

The Impreza is nothing more than an econo-box. The WRX and STI are overpriced hopped up versions. No different than Civic, Civic SI. And Subaru really needs to step ip the fuel economy to keep competitive. Most people don't need AWD, and aren't willing to pay the premium at the dealers and at the pump for it.


That said, I'm quite happy with my econo-shit-box, one that didn't even come from the factory with a damn stereo or sound deadening/insulation. Cheap bastards.

(IBFlamedBecauseRaceCar)

[Bob Danger]

Originally Posted by khail19

I don't really consider the Impreza a sports car at all.

I agree I'm banned from RS25.com for arguing that point. Look at what happened to the civic after the fit came out, it got fatter and softer. I see the impretzel doing the same.

[sperry]

Technically, the BRZ isn't a sports car either. It's got two too many seats and one too many roofs.

[rory_a]

The number of seats might have something to with insurance and registration cost differences that could hinder global sales.


That being said, my belief is that basically every Porsche aside from the early tractors, Cayenne, and Panamera, with some randoms mixed in, have been sports cars. And, aside from the 356 Speedster, 550 Spyder and other early race homologation specials, later Speedsters, Boxster, Caymen, and a few other random models, all production models have been 2+2. And, all of those were sold in larger numbers in the 2+2 hardtop, sunroof, targa, panarama glass roof, other other enclosed variants, than their soft-top siblings.

Just sayin'


* I forgot the Porsche/VW 914. It was a two seater. Mid/Rear too. Then again, most Porsche purists don't think of it as a "real" Porsche.

[sperry]

The strict/traditional definition of a sports car is a closed wheels, two seater, with no roof. Off the top of my head, the only sports cars for sale today are the Miata, Elise, and Boxster, since the s2000 and solstice/sky got canned. And I guess there are some kit cars out there like the Caterham Super7 or the FFM Cobra replicas that are true sports cars.

Cars people call sports cars, like the 911, Vette, most Ferraris, etc are all actually GT cars. Definitions from the 20's aren't all that useful today since the lines between genres have been so blurred over 100 years of car design. My point is that it's a futile exercise to argue about whether or not an Impreza is a "sports car" when cars that people almost universally agree are sports cars actually aren't.

[rory_a]

I still like my econo-shit-box

[Kevin M]

I wouldn't deny categorizing certain fixed-roof cars as not being "sports cars." The puny-ass, useless, insurance-classification-busting back seats don't do it either. As pointed out, a 911 of any variation is a sports car. A Corvette is too, and I would argue more so when it's a coupe and not a convertible. The 350Z and RX-8 are sports cars too.

I can buy the argument that a GT is not a sports car; however, it takes more to be a GT than 4 seats, 2 doors and RWD.

[sperry]

I absolutely do not classify all 911s as sports cars. The 911 Turbo is the pinnacle example of a GT car. In fact, I would categorically reject all AWD cars from sports car classification.

But once again the problem here isn't with agreeing on which cars are or aren't sporty, it's one of agreeing upon the definition of "sports car" in which to place sporty cars. Since the term isn't well defined, it's almost meaningless as a descriptive category.

[Kevin M]

Understood. I would argue that a car that handles reasonably well for its price and era, and isn't good for much beyond moving two people around at brisk speeds, is arguably a "sports car." Performance has to be placed a little ahead of comfort, and way ahead of any sort of practicality. A GT car differs in that it sacrifices some of that performance (more handling than power of course, a true GT is plenty fast) for a lot of comfort. A GT is something you want to be in for cutting a 9 hour trip to 6 hours. A sports car is for 2 hours of going nowhere at 60-80 mph.

[Nick Koan]

Now with less roof:



http://jalopnik.com/zone-out-on-this...-con-451362521

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

Now with less roof:



http://jalopnik.com/zone-out-on-this...-con-451362521

Why don't they just call it the Scion MX-5?

[Nick Koan]

So apparently the BRZ STi is a thing now:





http://jalopnik.com/the-subaru-brz-s...ked-1024198473

http://sti.jp/index.html

[sperry]

I bet it's an appearance package.

But if it's not... if there's a turbo, supercharger, or flat-6 under the hood... I'm buying one.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Seems likely they'd go the turbo route in order to follow past recipes for success and stay within their core competencies.

[Bob Danger]

I was just reading that the chief engineer (Tetsuya Tada) wasn't interested in going turbo. "I think 300bhp with a turbo and 200g/km of CO2 would be tasteless in this day and age. We're looking for a surprise. Something unique. For example, a hybrid motor." Are his exact words.

So the BRZ STI may (not) be the car your expecting.

[Nick Koan]

That almost makes it more intriguing.

[MattR]

I'll only buy one if it has a KERS (system).

[Nick Koan]

Update from Jalopnik says that this is a tS version, which

It's quite possible that we were blinded by desire for a faster BRZ that we didn't think that this might not actually be exactly what we wanted. But a report on 7tune says that the teaser images are just a tS version of the BRZ, which has parts made by STi.

What tipped them off? This weekend was the 86 Festival at Fuji Speedway, and Subaru unveiled the BRZ tS. The tS has no more power or a turbo, but does have some body mods and upgraded suspension courtesy of STi and other suppliers.

That's probably why the teaser alluded to "Purity of Handling" but didn't say "Unreal Facemelting Power." Still, we do expect a full bore STi version of the BRZ to come, it just might not be this one. It seems we may have blue ourselves too early.

We shot Subaru a note to see if this is the case. We'll update when we hear back.
UPDATE: Subaru has confirmed that the STi that was teased last night if just a tuned tS, not a full bore STi. Next time. Next time.

http://jalopnik.com/the-leaked-subar...l-s-1030254979

So, still sort of exciting, but not exactly OMGWTFBBQ!!1! level of excitement.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

Update from Jalopnik says that this is a tS version, which



http://jalopnik.com/the-leaked-subar...l-s-1030254979

So, still sort of exciting, but not exactly OMGWTFBBQ!!1! level of excitement.

Yep, not surprised, and still not interested.

Honestly, I think the car would be best if they started with this tS trim level car, and put a mild supercharger on it. Figure a 10:1 2.0L with a twin screw making a non-intercooled 6psi or so. Like 225-250hp at the rear wheels, or under 300hp at the crank. So, still not as fast as the Impreza STi on a drag strip, but a class higher than the car currently compares to at the road course. i.e. instead of going after S2000's and RX-8's, it's going after Cayman S's and Elises. I'd pay mid $30k's for that car.

[MattR]

Well it was exciting while it lasted.

Debbie drove an FR-S at autocross this weekend and sure seemed to enjoy it